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  #61  
Old 02 Feb 12, 20:49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiberius Duval View Post
In fact there is evidence that single celled life started at Earth about 3 billion years ago, maybe even more earlier, but that's oldest evidence we have...
Ok. Than only reinforces my point. Life starts fast when worlds form, so there's been plenty of time.
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  #62  
Old 02 Feb 12, 20:50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G David Bock View Post
Or there are Others destined to come, but don't arrive until we are gone.
Well, tough for them. Humans will be around for a long, long time

The Others will just have to be patient.
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  #63  
Old 02 Feb 12, 20:51
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Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
People really like to talk about terra-forming as though it is an accomplished science. We can't even "terra-form" useful portions of our own planet, and the costs in time, resources and technology to terra-form an entire world would be literally astronomical.

By the time we turn to the stars to relieve population pressure it will be too late, and we be out of time and resources.
No more than traveling to other stars is an accomplished science. Both interstellar travel and terra-forming are reasonable projects of future tech, but likely a ways down the road. I'm just being a "glass half-full" guy whereas you trend to be a "glass half-empty" sort.

We never got around to making Project Horizon happen, though occassionally dusting off up-dated versions;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Horizon
http://astronautix.com/articles/prorizon.htm

Population pressure wouldn't be the only reason. Economic opportunity, political freedom, religious expression, could be a lot of other motivations besides (over) population and resources depletion.
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  #64  
Old 03 Feb 12, 10:46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G David Bock View Post
No more than traveling to other stars is an accomplished science. Both interstellar travel and terra-forming are reasonable projects of future tech, but likely a ways down the road. I'm just being a "glass half-full" guy whereas you trend to be a "glass half-empty" sort.

We never got around to making Project Horizon happen, though occassionally dusting off up-dated versions;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Horizon
http://astronautix.com/articles/prorizon.htm

Population pressure wouldn't be the only reason. Economic opportunity, political freedom, religious expression, could be a lot of other motivations besides (over) population and resources depletion.
If you mean I'm a pessimist, you're wrong. If you mean I'm a pragmatic realist, you're right.

Optimists get a lot of people killed - Hitler, E.A. Smith, Custer, the captain of the Hindenburg, and on and on the list goes.

An optimist sees something brown on the sidewalk and believes it is a chocolate bar.

A pessimist sees the same thing and believes it is something nasty.

The pragmatist sees it and doesn't care, because he knows the odds on how it got there and because he doesn't eat unknown things off the sidewalk in the first place.

As for terraforming, we don't have the time or the resources to meet that goal before it is too late. Nature is badly out of balance, and the usual re-balancing measures of the past - plagues, famines and so forth - are today staved off artificially, but we cannot hold off Nature's redress forever. When the debt is finally paid, I doubt we will be able to rebuild what's left of our world, let alone think about the stars.
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  #65  
Old 29 Mar 12, 21:07
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New 'life in space' hope after billions of 'habitable planets' found in Milky Way

Billions of potentially habitable planets may exist within our galaxy, the Milky Way, raising new prospects that life could exist near Earth, a study has found.

" Researchers discovered that at least 100 of the ''super-Earths'' may be on our galactic doorstep, at distances of less than 30 light years, or about 180 trillion miles, from the sun.
Astronomers say the findings were made after conducting a survey of red dwarf stars, which account for about four in five stars in the Milky Way.
They calculate that around 40 per cent of red dwarfs have a rocky planet not much bigger than Earth orbiting the ''habitable zone'', in which liquid surface water can exist.
Scientists say that where there is water, there also could be life although they add that being in the habitable zone is no guarantee that life has evolved on a planet. "
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/s...Milky-Way.html


Looks like the "IF" in this thread OP just got a lot larger.
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  #66  
Old 29 Mar 12, 22:42
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And it's just a handful of years since we didn't even know if any other stars in the Universe had planets, thus putting a massive unknown into to the Drake equation.

That unknown is now removed. As well as, now perhaps, the unknown about how many planets could be in a habitable zone where liquid water can exist.

Good stuff!


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  #67  
Old 30 Mar 12, 12:19
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I think the odds are heavily in the favor of life on another planet. Million, billions of stars out there. At least one is much like ours. Then we assume that life on another planet needs the exact resources as humans to live. Are we sure about that?
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  #68  
Old 30 Mar 12, 20:56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Half Pint John View Post
I think the odds are heavily in the favor of life on another planet. Million, billions of stars out there. At least one is much like ours. Then we assume that life on another planet needs the exact resources as humans to live. Are we sure about that?
Short answer is I'd say reasonably so, if talking about physical, biological organisms.

A basic, fundimental knowledge of chemistry, then biology, and the workings of the periodic table of the elements reveals that the melting point, freezing point, etc. and atomic structure of say carbon is the same here on Earth and in our Solar System as anywhere else int he universe/cosmos. The ready electron bonding displayed by carbon to form major molecules that lead to complex molecues needed to form life; proteins, lipids, amino acids, etc looks to be a universal standard confirmed via astronomical observations. And carbon does this under a wider range of conditions and more readily than other elements, such as silicon, that it's highly probable that chemical/biological life would be very similar to life on Earth.

We'd likely see many of the same or near similar molecules; proteins, amino acids, etc., and perhaps even very close DNA patterns. Likely similar kingdom/order/phyla as well meaning things we'd recognize as bacteria, fungi, plants, animals; but species types might vary bit from comparable ones here on Earth.

Now if you're thinking about non-chemical, non-biological life, then that gets a whole lot more squishy in terms of how to define "life" and what sort of nature/appearance/composition such might take.

So in context of the article I linked to earlier, we're talking habitable planets that would have life looking very similar to what is here on Earth, or conditions that would support transplanting Earthly lifeforms to such worlds
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  #69  
Old 31 Mar 12, 11:00
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It could be that most alien life is roughly the same age and at the same stage of development that we are. Maybe we're all looking and wondering but none of us can go anywhere yet.

Or maybe we're considered backwards and violent and have been placed OFF LIMITS. We're not the nicest species by a long shot.
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  #70  
Old 01 Apr 12, 01:59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
It could be that most alien life is roughly the same age and at the same stage of development that we are. Maybe we're all looking and wondering but none of us can go anywhere yet.

Or maybe we're considered backwards and violent and have been placed OFF LIMITS. We're not the nicest species by a long shot.
Considering there have been a couple/few near E.L.E.s (Extinction Level Events) in Earth's past, it's probable sentient life, though not neccessarily mammal/primate/simian could have occurred several to scores (hundreds?) of millions of years earlier. At least the so-called fossil record suggests such potential.

Our star-planet system presents what may be a rare/unique case with Earth having two additional evolution adjusting factors in plate tectonics and large satellite causing tidal effects, as I mentioned earlier in this thread here;
http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forum...8&postcount=40
which could have impacted evolutionary cycles here as well. Net effect is that I'd wager we're a bit behind the curve compared to some star systems in this galaxy.

Flip side is that if transportation costs aren't prohibitive, we may have an export for inter-galactic gourmets in our tide-pool based fauna such as oysters, clams, etc. Geoducks may yield a much higher profit on Tau Ceti than in Japan!

If we/our world are "Off Limits", I'd suspect it may be for other reasons.
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  #71  
Old 03 Apr 12, 15:25
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Originally Posted by G David Bock View Post
Considering there have been a couple/few near E.L.E.s (Extinction Level Events) in Earth's past, it's probable sentient life, though not neccessarily mammal/primate/simian could have occurred several to scores (hundreds?) of millions of years earlier. At least the so-called fossil record suggests such potential.

Our star-planet system presents what may be a rare/unique case with Earth having two additional evolution adjusting factors in plate tectonics and large satellite causing tidal effects, as I mentioned earlier in this thread here;
http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forum...8&postcount=40
which could have impacted evolutionary cycles here as well. Net effect is that I'd wager we're a bit behind the curve compared to some star systems in this galaxy.

Flip side is that if transportation costs aren't prohibitive, we may have an export for inter-galactic gourmets in our tide-pool based fauna such as oysters, clams, etc. Geoducks may yield a much higher profit on Tau Ceti than in Japan!

If we/our world are "Off Limits", I'd suspect it may be for other reasons.
Or, we could end up being "the other white meat", which would solve a lot of our problems.
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  #72  
Old 27 Apr 12, 15:43
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Closest thread for this subject;
Astronomers find new planet capable of supporting life

"
Scientists found the planet, Gliese 667Cc, orbiting around a red dwarf star, 22 light years away from the earth.

Red dwarf stars are the most common stars in the neighbourhood of the sun, usually hosting planets called gas giants, which are not composed of rock matter.

Re-analysing data from the European Southern Observatory, the astronomers found Gliese 667Cc is a solid planet with roughly four and a half times the mass of Earth. "
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/s...ting-life.html


Right next door, but the gravity might be a bit "heavy".
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  #73  
Old 01 May 12, 16:59
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Originally Posted by G David Bock View Post
Considering there have been a couple/few near E.L.E.s (Extinction Level Events) in Earth's past, it's probable sentient life, though not neccessarily mammal/primate/simian could have occurred several to scores (hundreds?) of millions of years earlier. At least the so-called fossil record suggests such potential.

Our star-planet system presents what may be a rare/unique case with Earth having two additional evolution adjusting factors in plate tectonics and large satellite causing tidal effects, as I mentioned earlier in this thread here;
http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forum...8&postcount=40
which could have impacted evolutionary cycles here as well. Net effect is that I'd wager we're a bit behind the curve compared to some star systems in this galaxy.

Flip side is that if transportation costs aren't prohibitive, we may have an export for inter-galactic gourmets in our tide-pool based fauna such as oysters, clams, etc. Geoducks may yield a much higher profit on Tau Ceti than in Japan!

If we/our world are "Off Limits", I'd suspect it may be for other reasons.
Unless you are suggesting alien causation, I fail to see a connection between prior ELE's and sentient alien life in the galaxy.

I also fail to see why any alien race would be interested in our heavily poisoned food chain.

As for our being OFF LIMITS, we specialize in inventing ways to commit mass killings, and have deployed nuclear weapons. I sure as hell don;t trust us, so why would a race that has the technology required for star travel? Would you willingly associate with a bunch of sociopathic killers if you didn't have to?
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Old 01 May 12, 21:20
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Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
Unless you are suggesting alien causation, I fail to see a connection between prior ELE's and sentient alien life in the galaxy.

I also fail to see why any alien race would be interested in our heavily poisoned food chain.

As for our being OFF LIMITS, we specialize in inventing ways to commit mass killings, and have deployed nuclear weapons. I sure as hell don;t trust us, so why would a race that has the technology required for star travel? Would you willingly associate with a bunch of sociopathic killers if you didn't have to?
It's probable life in general and sentient life on other worlds started before either occurred here on Earth. ELEs here may have delayed the appearance of sentient here giving those on other worlds a further 'head-start' over us. Would/could put Them way ahead of us in technology at least.

I'm not convinced our food chain is "heavily poisoned", and life form variants caused by tidal conditions via the Moon may be exotic to interstellar gourmets.

What if human developments weren't the result of ourselves alone? We could be embarrassing evidence SomeOne Else would like to hide or obscure. We could be a "Dosadi Experiment" of sorts;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dosadi_Experiment

Nukes are nothing compared to destructive potential of anti-gravity, which interstellar travelers likely have. All the nukes on Earth don't equal a tenth of the typical flare or CME the Sun is kicking out right now.
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Old 01 May 12, 22:01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G David Bock View Post
It's probable life in general and sentient life on other worlds started before either occurred here on Earth. ELEs here may have delayed the appearance of sentient here giving those on other worlds a further 'head-start' over us. Would/could put Them way ahead of us in technology at least.

I'm not convinced our food chain is "heavily poisoned", and life form variants caused by tidal conditions via the Moon may be exotic to interstellar gourmets.

What if human developments weren't the result of ourselves alone? We could be embarrassing evidence SomeOne Else would like to hide or obscure. We could be a "Dosadi Experiment" of sorts;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dosadi_Experiment

Nukes are nothing compared to destructive potential of anti-gravity, which interstellar travelers likely have. All the nukes on Earth don't equal a tenth of the typical flare or CME the Sun is kicking out right now.


I think it's entirely possible that intelligent extra terrestrial life has existed at one point in time or another someone other than earth. However, the entire known history of mankind is nothing more than a blink of the cosmic eye. Our perception of time is constrained by our short lifespans. Man has only in the last 100 years developed technology that allowed him to fly. It has only been 50 years since the first human made it into space.

In the time that we have had the technology to leave the ground, we've had two World Wars, Korea, Vietnam, 46 years of the Cold War in a post nuclear world, and countless other conflicts around the globe.

Maybe the other sentient beings are more peaceful than humans you say?

Let's take a look at other simple ways that it's entirely possible for someone to kill off mankind. What about the mutated bacteria that have developed resistances to antibiotics? Look at Mad Cow disease and other illnesses said to be caused from playing with the genetic makeup of our food supply. Look at all the different diseases locked away in the Center for Disease Control, anyone of which could eradicate large portions of the human population.


In 2500 years we've gone from the Bronze Age to flying spaceships. In 2500 more years it's entirely possible we won't exist anymore. Finding intelligent life on other planets would be like finding a needle in the pacific ocean.


Ben
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