Australian Defence Force debates

[PacificSentinel]

DSTO demonstrates vision technology for ADF vehicles << DSTO

Early Delivery of Shadow 200 Unmanned Aerial System << AUS DoD

Growler Electronic Warfare Aircraft – Long Lead Item Equipment Purchase << AUS DoD

[kuma]

Originally Posted by PitchRate

Although the US Air Force isn't buying any new Global Hawks it looks like in the future they may reposition some of the ones they currently have.



LINK

I can just see it now, Marines practicing amphibious landings off Gator ships, having to deal with monster salt water crocs.

[PitchRate]

Well as long as they get their local beer choices correct all will be OK.

Victorians prefer Victoria Bitter (VB) or Carlton Draught (made in Melbourne), Queenslanders prefer XXXX and Power's, while New South Welshmen swear by Toohey's. In fact, you risk a beating by ordering anything other than the choice of locals in some pubs. Australian's like to joke that Foster's is made for the Yanks who couldn't tell a good beer from horsepiss.

[GCoyote]

... Australian's like to joke that Foster's is made for the Yanks who couldn't tell a good beer from horsepiss.

Okay, so it isn't just me. Foster's is Australia's revenge for all of the bad kangaroo jokes.

[PacificSentinel]

Think tank fears decade gap in submarine defence

AUSTRALIA faces a period without any submarines to defend the country unless the government takes urgent action to revise its plans to build 12 new submarines.

A report to be released today by the Australian Strategic Policy Institute gives a damning assessment of the lack of progress made by the Gillard government in implementing its promise, made in the 2009 defence white paper, to build a fleet of submarines to replace the Collins-class boats.

"That's not going to happen -- we're already past the point at which a force of that size and capability can be in place even by the mid-2030s," the report says.

"If current plans are adhered to, a capability gap is inevitable sometime in the late 2020s, and a period of no submarine capability at all is possible."

The ASPI report says the government has done little since the 2009 white paper to begin the long process of choosing and building the new submarines that will succeed the existing six-boat, Collins-class fleet when they are retired from 2022.

"Many options, including that of a locally designed submarine, are looking increasingly implausible," the report says.

The long lead times required to build a sophisticated submarine as envisaged in the white paper means that any new Australian-designed and built submarine would not be available until 2027 at the earliest and possibly as late as 2034, creating a so-called capability gap for up to a decade.

Read the full story at The Australian

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I still think the German Type 216 would make a sound choice.

[andrewza]

Or a type 209 or any german sub for that matter.

[BELGRAVE]

Originally Posted by andrewza

Or a type 209 or any german sub for that matter.

I'd settle for half-a -dozen Astute class nuclear subs.

Always assuming, of course, that their captains don't make it a practice of running them aground.

(Fat chance- I know ! )

[Achtung Baby]

Personally, I'd find it a real shame to see the Collins class successor delayed like this, Australia went on a huge learning curve to build our own subs, now with achievable outcomes while on exercises. It wasn't a smooth ride, and we still have hurdles to overcome, so why throw all that away now....

[kuma]

Originally Posted by Achtung Baby

Personally, I'd find it a real shame to see the Collins class successor delayed like this, Australia went on a huge learning curve to build our own subs, now with achievable outcomes while on exercises. It wasn't a smooth ride, and we still have hurdles to overcome, so why throw all that away now....

Why not build on that body of knowledge and come up with an evolutionary sub design; call it the Collins Blk 2, followed by a Blk 3.. based on an open,architecture to allow earlier blocks to be updated to the latest technologies as they become available? You wouldn't need to start from,scratch and cost and delay risks are lessened. Maybe tie-up with the Japanese who build pretty good subs as well.

[Achtung Baby]

Originally Posted by kuma

Why not build on that body of knowledge and come up with an evolutionary sub design; call it the Collins Blk 2, followed by a Blk 3.. based on an open,architecture to allow earlier blocks to be updated to the latest technologies as they become available? You wouldn't need to start from,scratch and cost and delay risks are lessened. Maybe tie-up with the Japanese who build pretty good subs as well.

I agree with everything you say mate... the partnership idea with the Japanese would be an interesting move.

[PacificSentinel]

Obsolete Collins fleet 'a lost cause' << The Australian

A SUBMARINE commander has quit the navy, describing the Collins-class fleet as obsolete and unsustainable and saying the boats are kept running only by the "sheer determination of the crews at sea".

<SNIP>

"I do not believe we have the capability to independently design and build our own submarines."

<SNIP>

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China will 'take us as a prize': Fraser << The Australian

AUSTRALIA could end up "taken as a prize" by China if a US policy of military containment leads to defeat for our American allies, former prime minister Malcolm Fraser has warned.

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Can Australian Military Do It All? << The Diplomat

[Achtung Baby]

Commander Harrap says that despite the unreliability of the submarines, he believes the Collins-class boats had "serviced the navy well and achieved much", including many unheralded successes.

Yeah I look for the silver lining.

[Galland]

still thin k a joint venture with a select few overseas submarine designer and builders is the only way to go to commence with the dream of a wholly indigenous submarine building capacity. Strategically it makes a whole lot of sense as the submarines would have a impact far in excess of its numbers in our SEALOC up North.

if you ask me, we should really be a submarine based sea fleet considering the relative lack of suitable ASuW aircraft currently fielded by our neighbours and adversaries up North...

[kuma]

From what I read the opposition party seems inclined to simply buy European and just assemble the subs in Australia. The cost would probably be a third of an indigenous design and they would be available earlier to ensure a smooth transition from Collins.

[PacificSentinel]

Just fount the following at The Diplomat, on the 2nd page it says..


Beating “Voldemort Syndrome”

<snip>

The other thing to monitor is the United States’ effort to assume a more central position in maritime Asia. Australia makes a logical staging point at the “seam” between the Pacific and Indian Ocean theaters. From this position midway through the region, maritime forces can swing from side to side as needed. And they can do so while remaining out of contested expanses like the Yellow, East China, and South China seas, which increasingly fall under the shadow of long-range Chinese weaponry.

I’m delighted that our administration and the Australian government have agreed to station U.S. Marines in Darwin, along the northern coast of Australia, and to operate American drones from the Cocos Islands. But much more needs to be done to establish a hub for seagoing U.S. forces in the Indo-Pacific region. I’d like to see carrier strike groups and surface action groups operate from this close American ally. Whether that happens…I guess we’ll see.

<snip>


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