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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Historical Events & Eras > Vietnam War

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Vietnam War The Battle for Vietnam. .

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  #46  
Old 29 Feb 12, 20:31
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I don't know if it was or is, a common thing,but the "tea" bars in Can Tho had small snails in a salt brine that you picked out with a small crochet hook. they were pretty tasty..........went good with some beers.......
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  #47  
Old 01 Mar 12, 13:08
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Originally Posted by jeffdoorgunnr View Post
I don't know if it was or is, a common thing,but the "tea" bars in Can Tho had small snails in a salt brine that you picked out with a small crochet hook. they were pretty tasty..........went good with some beers.......
Probably something like these sea(I think) snails :



Still popular and you can get 'em stateside too.
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  #48  
Old 01 Mar 12, 13:52
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Originally Posted by Phieu View Post
I don't think it's something you can define. You have to be a Vietnamese to know or rather to feel if an alleged Vietnamese dish served is authentic Vietnamese or not. Of course, there are instances an exceptional non Vietnamese chef cook can come up with an "authentic" Vietnamese dish. But that is rather rare.

In New York City, when I am asked, "where can I go to have an authentic Vietnamese food", I don't send him/her to Vietnamese restaurants in Chinatown. I am only sure about Le Colonial on 57th street and Lexington Avenue. Not even to Indochine which serves rather Cambodian-Vietnamese dishes, although it's excellent food, just not authentic Vietnamese.

Also in New York Ciy - and it should be the sam in other cities of the USA - the majority of sushi restaurants are run not by Japanese but by Chinese and Vietnamese. My tongue can't tell the difference - especially the food is served uncooked - but I bet you a Japanese's tongue certainly can!
Agreed. There's no true Vietnamese restaurant in New York, but the food is still damn good on Baxter St. in Chinatown! The best Vietnamese food I've had in the states was in Nashville, TN, where there was a strip mall fully occupied by Vietnamese restaurants, markets, and import/export... truly authentic Vietnamese-Vietnamese. I figure there's a lot of good places in Minnesota and Houston, where there's a large Vietnamese immigrant population.
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  #49  
Old 02 Mar 12, 03:04
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Sal, I love picking on Phieu when he deserves it, but I think he missed one point, and you missed his.

Vietnamese-Vietnamese means Kinh , i.e., ethnic Vietnamese which is 85% of their national population. Under the RVN, you could be a Vietnamese national, but not a Vietnamese citizen, i.e. not subject to the draft, or allowed to exit the country except under certain conditions. Nowadays, everyone is a Vietnamese 'citizen', and you don't really have to worry about elections anyway.

Phieu refers to Vietnamese-Chinese. Actually, several types exist. Chinese have been coming into Vietnam for over 2,000 years. Often refugees from Chinese upheavals, and often arriving in armed bands, they settled in among the locals, married into local families, and over a thousand years created today's sinicized Vietnamese culture, most of which developed during the T'ang dynasty (700s-800s-into 900s AD). This separated the 'Vietnamese' from their Northern Vietnamese Highland tribal relatives, the Muong (capital Hoa Binh). A coup and political rivalries between the Trinh and Nguyen clans pushed the Nguyen south, where modern Vietnam might have ended at Phan Thiet except for a Ming Chinese refugee living in Lower Cambodia (at today's Ha Tien) who called for help in keeping the Thais out of the province he had been given to rule by Phnom Penh.

Chinese-Vietnamese are Vietnamese who are taught Chinese culture and language in the home, and who belong to Chinese associations who maintain their own rosters on membership. The oldest were the Hoa, which included Ming and earlier dynastic refugees, with the Qing (Ching) being the later arrivals from China. What makes one "Chinese" is membership in these associations. In Can Tho, the oldest religious building in town is the Chua Ong (Ong Temple) which doubles as the Kuang-Tsao (Association) Assembly Hall. It dates to the 1890s, and is the temple down on the waterfront across from the Nien Kieu park. Most tourists confuse it for Buddhist, but it is in fact Confucian, built to worship the Kuang-Kung deity, though a Buddha representing the Kul-Am Buddha is on the left side of the temple in respect to local traditions. It was built by Chinese who emigrated in from Kwang-Cheou and the Tsao-Hung districts of Kuang-Tong (Canton?). There were other Chinese associations in Can Tho, and they likewise built and maintained temples and associations halls. One former such hall looks like a mosque, which it may have been if the Chinese there came from Yunnan, but it wasn't open and I couldn't ask the question.

The Tet dragon dances we see in large Vietnamese cities are usually performed by Chinese temple associations, who maintain the tradition. Of course, many local 'dragon dance' groups pop up at Tet, since the tradition is to put up real money for the dragon to devour, but the best I've seen are from Chinese associations in Cholon and Can Tho.

Most of these Chinese immigrants married Vietnamese women, and sometimes several, leading to situations where the first wife's children were raised as "Chinese", i.e. being educated as such, but other wives children were raised an Vietnamese. The point being that "Chinese" in such families were such in cultural terms only.

We referred to them all as "Nungs" in our day. That was incorrect as the true Nung are a Sinicized Thai people from Southern China and the North Vietnam highland border area. Mr. Long, who had commanded the "Nung" company in the II Corps Mike Force, had served in the Chinese Nationalist Army, whose southern armies included at least one division of people born in Vietnam, and likely more. When Nationalist China collapsed in 1949, several divisions crossed over into Vietnam, where the French rounded up all they could find and sent them off to Taiwan. But many of those born and raised in Vietnam managed to return home.

As to Vietnamese-Vietnamese food, Mr. Phieu presumes too much. In 1982 I ate at a "Chinese" restaurant in Casper (or Sheridan?) Wyoming whose very name tipped me off. It was the "Mekong". The owner was pure Vietnamese. But as he explained it, he only served Vietnamese fare on weekends because everyone in town expected Chinese fare, and that was what they were willing to pay for. To the public, Vietnamese was too exotic, but "Chinese" was something they knew and expected. Egg rolls, fried rice, and lots of sweet sauces for dipping. Alas, the American public is not into 100 year old duck eggs, ...yet.

Hope this wan't a rant, I've still getting over 20 hours in the air, not including stop-overs.

And Boomer, I ate those snails about a week ago in Chau Doc. They had not been properly soaked, so I bit down on a lot of sand. In general, food in Chau Doc really sucks. I don't think the town has recovered from its recent record floods. Maybe the Victoria would have been worth the money, but I judge Vietnam by its street food stalls, which in most places are pretty good..
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  #50  
Old 02 Mar 12, 03:47
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Originally Posted by lirelou View Post
As to Vietnamese-Vietnamese food, Mr. Phieu presumes too much. In 1982 I ate at a "Chinese" restaurant in Casper (or Sheridan?) Wyoming whose very name tipped me off. It was the "Mekong". The owner was pure Vietnamese. But as he explained it, he only served Vietnamese fare on weekends because everyone in town expected Chinese fare, and that was what they were willing to pay for. To the public, Vietnamese was too exotic, but "Chinese" was something they knew and expected. Egg rolls, fried rice, and lots of sweet sauces for dipping. Alas, the American public is not into 100 year old duck eggs, ...yet.
I am not sure your guy is pure Vietnamese.
In any eventuality,
- if he served Cantonese style dishes, then a pure Cantonese would know it was not authentic Cantonese cuisine;
- if he served Fukien style dishes, then a pure Fukienese would know it was not authentic Fukien cuisine;
- if he served Zhechuan style dishes, then a pure Zhechuanese would know it was not authentic Zhechuan cuisine;
- if he served Shanghai style dishes, then a pure Shanghainese would know it was not authentic Shanghai cuisine;
- etc.
For you that day, Lirelou, you enjoyed Chinese Mekong style dishes ...

P.S. My wife and I went to each at Shun Lee Restaurant located at the Columbus Circle (Manhattan), a very expensive restaurant catering the upper-class New Yorkers (we could afford it because it was New York Restaurant Week with discount prices). My wife complained here oranged favor beef dish did not taste Chinese at all and thought the restaurant might recently hire an inexperienced chef. The maître d' explained that the chef cook has been here for the last 30 years and he has been cooked the same way since; it just that he has to cater to the American palates that prefer the beef very salty and extra crispy ...

A word of advise: next time, when you go to get some authentic Chinese (Cantonese, Fukien, Zchezuan, Shanghai, etc) food, look first and only go in if you don't see any American seating in there, just Chinese patrons.

Last edited by Phieu; 02 Mar 12 at 04:21..
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  #51  
Old 02 Mar 12, 04:16
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Esteemed Anh Phieu, your very dry sense of humor may escape some readers. I know that you caught the gist of my quote marks over "chinese". Chinese as in what the folks in Casper, Wyoming thought "Chinese" should be. No Hoa person would ever name their restaurant the "Mekong". At best, it would have been a Mandarin version of Cuu Long, or maybe the Nan Yue?

I've eaten real Chinese food in Taiwan (the best), Beijing, Shanghai, Hong Kong (2nd Best) and Macao. in restaurants where I was the only Gwei lo. I prefer Vietnamese and Thai to any of them, except when it comes to dumplings, Dim Sum, and hand-made on site noodles.
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  #52  
Old 02 Mar 12, 04:20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phieu View Post
I am not sure your guy is pure Vietnamese.
In any eventuality,
- if he served Cantonese style dishes, then a pure Cantonese would know it was not authentic Cantonese cuisine;
- if he served Fukien style dishes, then a pure Fukienese would know it was not authentic Fukien cuisine;
- if he served Zhechuan style dishes, then a pure Zhechuanese would know it was not authentic Zhechuan cuisine;
- if he served Shanghai style dishes, then a pure Shanghainese would know it was not authentic Shanghai cuisine;
- etc.
For you that day, Lirelou, you enjoyed Chinese Mekong style dishes ...
What the heck is pure Vietnamese? In reality anyway you dice it, it will never meet your approval.

How shall we make a bowl of noodle? Isn't the entire basis of modern day "pure Vietnamese" Pho as served in the US was based on Hanoi style? Kinda sucks to that everyone is eating food from Hanoi instead of Saigon? History has it that it was a Ms Pham and a Ms Nguyen that made that first bowl...........like it or not, those two names contribute to about 47% of all Vietnamese surnames, and has it rooted from Chinese.

You cannot separate the Chinese out of Vietnamese culture as much as you try.
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  #53  
Old 02 Mar 12, 04:35
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Originally Posted by Salinator View Post
What the heck is pure Vietnamese?
It's undefinable, alright. You only knew it, if you are Vietnamese!
Quote:
How shall we make a bowl of noodle? Isn't the entire basis of modern day "pure Vietnamese" Pho as served in the US was based on Hanoi style? Kinda sucks to that everyone is eating food from Hanoi instead of Saigon?
Yes, that is if you are a connaisseur , not satisfied with "so so" food.

Quote:
History has it that it was a Ms Pham and a Ms Nguyen that made that first bowl
Reference please ...

Quote:
it rooted from Chinese.
Actually, Pho's root is in Guangzhi

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You cannot separate the Chinese out of Vietnamese culture as much as you try.
Who says I want to ?

Last edited by Phieu; 02 Mar 12 at 04:44..
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  #54  
Old 02 Mar 12, 04:58
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Originally Posted by Phieu View Post
It's undefinable, alright. You only knew it, if you are Vietnamese!
Sure, whatever. What is your name in "Pure Vietnamese" without using any Chinese symbols or French/Roman alphabet system?

Quote:
Yes, that is if you are a connaisseur
I am. AND I can spell connoisseur.


Quote:
Reference please ...
Huh? Everyone here knows about this. Guess they kept you out of the loop?


Quote:
Actually, Pho's root is in Guangzhi
No, that is the root of Fun and Mein which Vietnamese noodles borrowed from. The modern day Pho as served in America is a narrow version of the Fun served in Guangzhou. The Mi is from Guongdong. And my favorite but very difficult to find is the genuine My Tho noodle is from the Mekong.


Quote:
Who says I want to ?
Then stop acting so snobby about it.
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  #55  
Old 02 Mar 12, 05:12
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Originally Posted by Salinator View Post
I am. AND I can spell connoisseur.
English-French : connoisseur
French-French : connaisseur

That says it all: you are not sohpisticated - no offense intended - enough, in my opinion for me to continue dialoguing this topic with you ...

P.S.
- Fun is from Guangzhou
- Mi is from Guangdong
- Pho is from Guanxi
- Hutieu Mytho is from Pnom Penh!

Last edited by Phieu; 02 Mar 12 at 20:20..
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  #56  
Old 02 Mar 12, 05:22
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Originally Posted by Phieu View Post
English-French : connoisseur
French-French : connaisseur

That says it all: you are not sohpisticated - no offense intended - enough to continue this topic discussion ...
Hey SMART brother of some hero general.............what language are we speaking now? No offense intended, but geezzzzz some brother of a big time general would know how to adapt? And continue discussion? And know about where your noodles came from?

Again, you can't spell worth squat. Are you now going to tell me that "sohpistcated" is a special word in French-French? Or is it French-Vietnamese?

Run, little few, run.......

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  #57  
Old 02 Mar 12, 06:21
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Dialogue, not discussion.
That is if you are sophisticated enough to discern the nuance ...


Prayers. Prayers. Prayers.

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  #58  
Old 02 Mar 12, 06:36
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Originally Posted by Phieu View Post
Dialogue, not discussion.
That is if you are sophisticated enough to discern the nuance ...


Prayers. Prayers. Prayers.
Weak. So weak. Perhaps Lam instead of few is your name or calling.

Running is such a trend.
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Old 02 Mar 12, 06:55
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...looks like someone grabbed the clacker and set off the "Phieu-gas" again.
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Old 02 Mar 12, 07:00
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Esteemed Anh Phieu, your very dry sense of humor may escape some readers.
(Lirelou)


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Prayers Prayers Prayers
(Salinator)

Better off give the forum back to the food commentators ...

Last edited by Phieu; 02 Mar 12 at 07:04..
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