Euro has 1-in-5 chance of lasting decade: UK think-tank

[Andy H]

Originally Posted by copenhagen

Genuinely did your vote actually mean anything. Dont't no about you but Ive never seen these votes respected anywhere else. Bearing in mind "no" is the wrong answer.

Hi Cope

Thats an age old arguement about the worth of a single vote.

If the masses don't vote out of apathy or downright ignorance, then you leave the door wide open for the extremists and nutty parties, that will surely have more potential impact than if you did vote!

Regards

[Listy]

Originally Posted by Johan Banér

That's not the EU. That depends on your brand of national politics. I've voted in the referendums. Just sorry to hear the British public doesn't get the chance. It might need to take that up with someone, but that's someone in London rather than Brussels. British sovereignty still being what it is.

Sorry for not making it clear, my sarcasm was directed at the Labour government*, not the EU. I have plenty of other sticks to beat the EU with, so I don't need an extra whacking device

*If you don't remember (and there's no reason why you should) Labour gave a promise in their election manifesto that they would give the country a referendum on the EU constitution. When the words "EU constitution" where replaced with "Lisburn treaty" they turned round and said "this isn't a Constitution, its a treaty therefore we don't need to allow the referendum." This was done because they knew full well what the outcome would be, and we can't have the Public getting in the way of Mandelson's "post democratic" gravy train.

Originally Posted by Andy H

Hi Cope

Thats an age old arguement about the worth of a single vote.

If the masses don't vote out of apathy or downright ignorance, then you leave the door wide open for the extremists and nutty parties, that will surely have more potential impact than if you did vote!

Regards

I think he was referring to the way the Irish (And to a lesser extent the Dutch and French) "No" vote was ignored.

[Miss Saigon]

I don't think that the Euro is destined to fail. There is no reason why there cannot be different levels of competitiveness within the Euro zone and it still function properly. That is what happens in the US. There is a huge difference financially between places like NY and Texas, or Alabama and Michigan, yet the currency still works just fine.

The fundamental problem in the Euro zone is there is no way for the EU to control cheating on the budget and deficit rules from country to country in the Euro zone. If a country like Italy decides to cook its books, or just plain ignore the EU budget rules there is nothing anyone can do about it.

So far the Germans have just made up for all the creative book keeping and undisciplined behavior, but this won't last forever. But I don't think this is the end of the Euro. Even if the Germans finally say enough is enough. I think they will just give more power to Brussels and try to regulate their way out of Euro trouble, because that is the European way.

But what they really need to do is disassociate the European bank from the sovereign debt of each country. Each nation should borrow money based on its own credit and there should not be standardized Euro bond yields across the EU. That is how it works in the US, and it does work. They also need to stop the bail outs, because right now what speculators see is that the EU/Germans will come with the bail out so this mean that bad sovereign debt still has a easily subscribed market. This does nothing to encourage fiscal prudence. I have always believed that the bailouts were a bad idea because they create the wrong incentive structure and do not encourage reform. The Germans need to close their wallets, interest rates on poor credit risk nations need to go up, and if anyone doesn't like it then they should just be allowed to depart the Eurozone and devalue. Because in the end the Greeks are not Germans and they will not be inveigled into acting like them.

[Listy]

Originally Posted by Miss Saigon

But I don't think this is the end of the Euro. Even if the Germans finally say enough is enough. I think they will just give more power to Brussels and try to regulate their way out of Euro trouble, because that is the European way.

Sarkozy has a somewhat different view.

[copenhagen]

Originally Posted by Andy H

Hi Cope

Thats an age old arguement about the worth of a single vote.

If the masses don't vote out of apathy or downright ignorance, then you leave the door wide open for the extremists and nutty parties, that will surely have more potential impact than if you did vote!

Regards

Thats so not what I'm talking about. See Irish and Lisbon Treaty.

[Andy H]

Originally Posted by copenhagen

Thats so not what I'm talking about. See Irish and Lisbon Treaty.

Hi Cope

Apologies

Regards