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| Alternate Timelines The great "what if's" of military history. |
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30 Dec 10, 04:03
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: London
Posts: 4,688
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SEALION Late 1940?
A Sealion question by the back door... 
How late could the above operation have taken place in 1940, to give a reasonable chance of success?
Assumption is that the BoB would still be ongoing, and that Hitler had eventually lost patience and ordered the attack (not an unreasonable assumption I feel). 
Supplimentary...
Given a late start to the preparations and the invasion itself, could the operation have been successfully sustained into late autumn/fall and possibly full winter, at a cost bearable to Germany?
How might the ongoing invasion have affected other fronts (North Africa) and/or the political and military actions of (then) neutral nations such as the USA, the USSR and Japan?
Regards
Gaz |
30 Dec 10, 04:20
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Barron Colliers Land
Posts: 8,593
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you could probably apply the same factors the Allies did regarding Normandy and come up with a goodanswer
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30 Dec 10, 06:11
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: London
Posts: 4,929
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30 Dec 10, 06:45
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Real Name: Michael Thomas
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Stockport, Cheshire.
Posts: 3,936
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allsirgarnet
AHow late could the above operation have taken place in 1940, to give a reasonable chance of success?
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My understanding is that the German's and British were on the same page with this question... late September. |
30 Dec 10, 07:00
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Real Name: Roderick
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: In front of the computer
Posts: 5,856
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redcoat
My understanding is that the German's and British were on the same page with this question... late September.
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I have read that the Germans had a window of about 4 to 6 weeks after Dunkerque, this was the best time in which the British Army was in no real shape to fight.
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Never eat yellow snow.
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30 Dec 10, 07:08
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Real Name: Andrew
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Perth
Posts: 3,366
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The English Channel was a far greater threat than the British Army.
By late September, the Autumn gales and frequent storms would've made a landing virtually impossible without a safe port ( remember, in '44 the Allies cheated and built one  ).
All possibility of a 1940 invasion had vanished by September, it's as simple as that.
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Made in Scotland from Girders.
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30 Dec 10, 07:14
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Perth
Posts: 9,827
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redcoat
My understanding is that the German's and British were on the same page with this question... late September.
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You have got to be joking rc, being a Pom you ought to know what an uncertain time that is to conduct a seaborne landing, late september is early October and the Autumn come Winter Atlantic weather is beginning to push its way up the south coasts of England. The British authorities were probably HOPING that they would try it at that time, because the weather would have been on our side! lcm1
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'By Horse by Tram'.
I was in when they needed 'em,not feeded 'em.
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30 Dec 10, 07:17
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Perth
Posts: 9,827
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allsirgarnet
A Sealion question by the back door...
How late could the above operation have taken place in 1940, to give a reasonable chance of success?
Assumption is that the BoB would still be ongoing, and that Hitler had eventually lost patience and ordered the attack (not an unreasonable assumption I feel).
Supplimentary...
Given a late start to the preparations and the invasion itself, could the operation have been successfully sustained into late autumn/fall and possibly full winter, at a cost bearable to Germany?
How might the ongoing invasion have affected other fronts (North Africa) and/or the political and military actions of (then) neutral nations such as the USA, the USSR and Japan?
Regards
Gaz |
Ever been on Brighton beach in the Autumn/Winter Alfie?  lcm1
__________________
'By Horse by Tram'.
I was in when they needed 'em,not feeded 'em.
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30 Dec 10, 07:35
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Real Name: Bill Jarett
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: West Haven
Posts: 1,339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooner
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Piece of cake...I'll stay on ship and observe  |
30 Dec 10, 07:49
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: Eastern US
Posts: 7,396
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roddoss72
I have read that the Germans had a window of about 4 to 6 weeks after Dunkerque, this was the best time in which the British Army was in no real shape to fight.
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While that may be, where were the assets to carry the ratzis over the Channel? Even if they weren't beset by weather and the RN.
Regards,
Dennis
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If stupid was a criminal offense Sea Lion believers would be doing life.
Shouting out to Half Pint for bringing back the big mugs!
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30 Dec 10, 07:55
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Real Name: Jennie
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: West Sussex
Posts: 3,282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooner
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What's the old saying - a picture paints a thousand words .... just imagine them old Rhine barges bobbing about on that lot, German soldiers chucking their guts up over the side ..... 
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"COOMMAAAAAAANNNNDOOOO!!!!!"
- Mad Jack Churchill.
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30 Dec 10, 09:35
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Real Name: Roderick
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: In front of the computer
Posts: 5,856
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuck's Luck
What's the old saying - a picture paints a thousand words .... just imagine them old Rhine barges bobbing about on that lot, German soldiers chucking their guts up over the side ..... |
Good more burley for fishing 
__________________
Never eat yellow snow.
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30 Dec 10, 09:51
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ACG Forums - General Staff
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Real Name: Gerry Proudfoot
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: In my castle by the sea.
Posts: 9,760
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roddoss72
I have read that the Germans had a window of about 4 to 6 weeks after Dunkerque, this was the best time in which the British Army was in no real shape to fight.
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And the Germans had no means of crossing the Channel.
Sep 24th was set as S-day and it was about the earliest the Germans could have managed considering they were coming over in barges being towed at 3-4 knots.
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The Purist
Words ought to be a little wild, for they are the assault of thoughts on the unthinking - John Maynard Keynes.
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30 Dec 10, 10:31
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ACG Forums - General Staff
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: Western Australia
Posts: 18,313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allsirgarnet
"A Sealion question by the back door..." |
It can be thrown out by either the back door or the front; take your pick.
Quote:
Originally Posted by allsirgarnet
"How late could the above operation have taken place in 1940, to give a reasonable chance of success?"
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Sealion NEVER had a "reasonable chance" of success! 
Quote:
Originally Posted by allsirgarnet
" Assumption is that the BoB would still be ongoing, and that Hitler had eventually lost patience and ordered the attack (not an unreasonable assumption I feel). " |
Attempt a cross-channel invasion without adequate preparation; without the required air superiority over the Channel and SE England; AND against the might of the Royal Navy?
You've gotta be joking! Even Hitler wasn't that stupid!
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Remember the Golden Rule: He who has the gold, makes the rules!
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30 Dec 10, 10:38
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 2,078
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooner
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Pfft ! That would be a piece of cake...
The above pic is from Devon btw. |
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