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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Forum Resources > Armchair Attacks! > Most Decisive Battle

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Most Decisive Battle Fall 2008 Tournament

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  #16  
Old 08 Jul 08, 19:00
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grognard View Post
how can a battle in 324 BC be a follow-up to a battle almost 600 years later?
Oooops...I meant 324 AD !!!!



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  #17  
Old 08 Jul 08, 20:53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stratego View Post
Never heard of that one...but it sounds like it had the same result as the battle of Chrysopolis in 324 BC...ever heard of that battle Sgt. Rock???? Seems to me that Chrysopolis is the follow-up of the battle of Milvian Bridge...




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I knew Constantine defeated Licinius, but didn't know it was called the Battle of Chrysopolis. Anyways, I thought it was fair to make suggestions for battles we felt were important. One of the reasons I think the Battle of Milvian Bridge might be more important is because of the Edict of Milan that was issued afterwards. Just my input.



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  #18  
Old 08 Jul 08, 22:18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sgt. Rock View Post
I knew Constantine defeated Licinius, but didn't know it was called the Battle of Chrysopolis. Anyways, I thought it was fair to make suggestions for battles we felt were important. One of the reasons I think the Battle of Milvian Bridge might be more important is because of the Edict of Milan that was issued afterwards. Just my input.



http://www.christianitysite.com/MilvianBridge.htm
The edict of Milan makes Mulvian Bridge more important
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  #19  
Old 08 Jul 08, 23:05
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-Battle of Cannae 216 BC
The most “perfect” battle ever fought + Rome’s military forces and organisation becomes more flexible + Beginning of the end of the Roman Republic due to forced unified command in leading campaigns…

All True but in the end Cannae did not decide the fates of Rome and Carthage.
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  #20  
Old 09 Jul 08, 08:01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by regulator4 View Post
-Battle of Cannae 216 BC
The most “perfect” battle ever fought + Rome’s military forces and organisation becomes more flexible + Beginning of the end of the Roman Republic due to forced unified command in leading campaigns…

All True but in the end Cannae did not decide the fates of Rome and Carthage.

Indeed Regulator, in the end...Rome WAS victorious, despite the sever defeat at Cannae !!!!
I'm not gonna argue with you on that one...
Bit it did push the Romans to have more flexibility in their armies, to appoint only one Consul to lead armies in times of war or crisis, which in turn led to a better high command-structure (instead of one consul the one day and the other consul another day), which led to Scipio Africanus that led to the eventual defeat of the Carthagianians, which in turn led to the beginning of the end of the "Roman Republic" because the Senate agreed to appoint a one-man power to lead in time of crisis and which in the end led to Sulla, Pompey, Caesar and the ultimate death of the Roman Republic !!!!!

That is why I put Cannae on the list...


Ooooooffffff



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  #21  
Old 09 Jul 08, 09:31
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Cannae

Stratego that is a very reasonable argument. I don't doubt that Cannae will make the "cut" for the final eight and may go a few rounds in the finals.
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  #22  
Old 09 Jul 08, 13:39
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Thanks Regulator...had to type the message in my lunchtime, so I had to be fast, I hope it is clear enough to understand...



Greets,
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PS: By the way, I like your avatar...
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  #23  
Old 10 Jul 08, 01:21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stratego View Post
Indeed Regulator, in the end...Rome WAS victorious, despite the sever defeat at Cannae !!!!
I'm not gonna argue with you on that one...
Bit it did push the Romans to have more flexibility in their armies, to appoint only one Consul to lead armies in times of war or crisis, which in turn led to a better high command-structure (instead of one consul the one day and the other consul another day), which led to Scipio Africanus that led to the eventual defeat of the Carthagianians, which in turn led to the beginning of the end of the "Roman Republic" because the Senate agreed to appoint a one-man power to lead in time of crisis and which in the end led to Sulla, Pompey, Caesar and the ultimate death of the Roman Republic !!!!!

That is why I put Cannae on the list...
Good reasoning. Cannae is a good choice, but to in an effort to narrow the list down to eight, let us look at it again.

Cannae was a huge defeat for the Romans, but what did it really decide? Hannibal was too weak to take Rome and hold it, and Rome would have never accepted terms. It tied down Hannibal and weakened Carthage's position elsewhere. Rome had superior resources and manpower, and the longer the Second Punic War lasted, the less chance of victory for Carthage. The years of Hannibal roaming about the Italian peninsula gave Rome the time it needed and and that of which Carthage could not well afford.
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  #24  
Old 10 Jul 08, 07:27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by salinator View Post
Good reasoning. Cannae is a good choice, but to in an effort to narrow the list down to eight, let us look at it again.

Cannae was a huge defeat for the Romans, but what did it really decide? Hannibal was too weak to take Rome and hold it, and Rome would have never accepted terms. It tied down Hannibal and weakened Carthage's position elsewhere. Rome had superior resources and manpower, and the longer the Second Punic War lasted, the less chance of victory for Carthage. The years of Hannibal roaming about the Italian peninsula gave Rome the time it needed and and that of which Carthage could not well afford.
But that's just the point Sal ! What did Cannae really decide? In the current history as we know it: Nothing...but what COULD it have decided? EVERYTHING !!!! If Hannibal had marched up to Rome right away, instead of "hanging" around and giving Rome time to breathe he should have marched up and showed his presence at the walls of Rome !!!!
Now, you will probably argue that his men were weakened, perhaps, but he also got a whole bunch of new allies on his side after Cannae with which he could have replenished his army and taken Rome ! The whole of Southern Italy was in Hannibals hands...and the North was already "liberated" by Hannibal in the previous 2 years of camaigning (Notwithstanding the defeat of Hasdrubal at Metaurus the year before which prevented Hannibal a surplus of troops)...
Food to feed his troops? Not an arguement...he had the south of Italy in his control and the south of Italy was the foodsupply of the entire Italian peninsula as you well know...
No...Rome would have freaked if they had seen Hannibal at their gates a few weeks after Cannae and certainly would have made peace...OR eventually would have starved during a short siege because Hannibal had the south !!!!! Only central Italy remained true to Rome after Cannae, but even then...for how long still if Hannibal had moved up ?????

The battle was decisive...but wasn't followed up as it should by Carthage...



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Last edited by Stratego; 10 Jul 08 at 07:41..
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  #25  
Old 14 Jul 08, 07:08
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NEVER MIND THIS LAST POST...I GOT THE DATES WRONG AGAIN !!!!
METAURUS WAS FOUGHT IN 207 BC NOT IN 217 BC !!!!
Sorry Sal, please forgive...

I feel Metaurus should come in the place of Zama on our lists...



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  #26  
Old 13 Dec 09, 23:04
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Exclamation Decisive Battle

Hey

I think the most Decisive battle of the Ancient World was the battle of Pharsalus. Had Caesar lost at that battle, the Republic could have lasted much longer, Pompey could take Caesar's place as dictator, and the time of the emperors would have come much later. It is possible if Pompey won, there wouldn't be an Augustus or Claudius or Caligula or even as far as Nero!!!!

Yet, there is one thing that about Cannae that made it decisive, but for modern times. Because of the number of men lost, Rome introduced a new festival to raise morale, Saturnalia. It was a very special time of year, one of the traditions was the exchanging of gifts, and it was held at the end of December. The way Saturnalia was run influenced the time and traditions of the first Christmases. So if the Battle of Cannae never happened, or if it had been reversed, we wouldn't have Christmas presents!!!!!!
Imagine a life WITHOUT Christmas Presents!!!!!
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  #27  
Old 14 Dec 09, 20:32
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While Pharsalus was certainly a very decisive battle in Ancient History, how about the Battle of Alesia?

As brilliant as Caesar's victory at Pharsalus was, the Battle of Alesia, and especially the siege that preceded it, stands as Caesar's greatest victory in my personal opinion!
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  #28  
Old 20 Oct 10, 18:32
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I believe either the battle of leignitz or the battle of the Badger Mouth.
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