Irish Civil War

[DARKPLACE]

Originally Posted by E.D. Morel

Yes, I agree with you there.
I used to do a lot of business in Derry/Londonderry (whatever you want to call it) and I made some good friends there most of whom were protestant. I was born Catholic but have no religious alignment now so a persons religion is about as relevant to me as their eye colour. I just take people as I find them.

My comments below were in relation to the die-hards on both sides. Most people, as you say, just want to get through the day.

One of the great unanswered questions about Northern Ireland is why when on both sides of the divide you had majorities of people in favour of peaceful solutions that it took so long for peace to break out?

I've heared it blamed on the poor economic situation. That it bled a lot of the natural leaders of the communities away to the mainland or the US. A sort of mini brain drain if you will. I've heard it blamed on the seperate educational systems. Both of which were pretty much divided along religious lines and prone to recycling community myths as history. I've heard it blamed on all three. I dont think theres an easy or comfortable answer.

I once read a management text book that had an intresting little quote in it. "Every decision you make will have at least 3 different unplanned consequences and one of those will always be disasterous."

Anglo Irish history has always seemed to be the living proof of that to me.

From the original invasion by Strongbow through to the sending of the British army in the 1960's after the civil rights marches, via the executions after the Easter Rising. All reasonable decisions and soundly based at the time and all in hindsight disasters.

[E.D. Morel]

Originally Posted by DARKPLACE

One of the great unanswered questions about Northern Ireland is why when on both sides of the divide you had majorities of people in favour of peaceful solutions that it took so long for peace to break out?

I've heared it blamed on the poor economic situation. That it bled a lot of the natural leaders of the communities away to the mainland or the US. A sort of mini brain drain if you will. I've heard it blamed on the seperate educational systems. Both of which were pretty much divided along religious lines and prone to recycling community myths as history. I've heard it blamed on all three. I dont think theres an easy or comfortable answer.

In the West it's called politics. In Africa it's called tribalism. Same thing.

The army was sent in in the late 60's because of the ethnic cleansing conducted by Unionist murder gangs. The RUC and local militia (the B-Specials) stood by and watched as whole roads of nationalists were forced out and their housed burned down. That's why they were welcomed by the Nationalists/Catholics when they first came.

[Anglopole]

Originally Posted by E.D. Morel

In the West it's called politics. In Africa it's called tribalism. Same thing.

That is one of the truest things I have heard!

The problem with Ulster/NI is that the hatred has been passed down through the family and todays people do not even really understand why. They say the same old things without truly thinking about it. I had an oppo in the RN and he was an Ulster Unionist that was proud it was his turn to lead the Orange march (though he couldnt as he was a serving sailor obviously) when I questioned him he came up with the lame excuses that he actually did not understand.

I do not know much about the 20s, though I am pretty widely read on the troubles of the late 20th century. I have heard however that de Valera sent Collins off to sign the treaty knowing full well the reaction back home, therefore having it taint Collins rather than himself. Is there any truth in that or i9s it just the spin of a certain side?

[E.D. Morel]

Originally Posted by Anglopole

I do not know much about the 20s, though I am pretty widely read on the troubles of the late 20th century. I have heard however that de Valera sent Collins off to sign the treaty knowing full well the reaction back home, therefore having it taint Collins rather than himself. Is there any truth in that or i9s it just the spin of a certain side?

The British insisted that the negotiation team should have the authority to sign a treaty but the instructions from their leadership was that they were not to sign anything before to was discussed and agreed by the Irish government. Collins signed it anyway.

[The Highwayman]

The problem with Ulster/NI is that the hatred has been passed down through the family and todays people do not even really understand why.

A lot of them do not want to understand, their warped version of Britishness or Irishness satisfies identity issues; a lot of Sinn Feinesque republicans have no true understanding of Irish culture. Oh sure they use 'mo chara' or other mispronounced Gaeilge words but they all they have is an cultureless mythology spoon fed to them by Sinn Fein; Ireland's would be socialist dictators (read Eire Nua for details). If you doubt me or want examples of just how *censored* stupid humans can get check out the ogra sinn fein blog (they have a blog post celebrating Gerry McCabe's murderers where they posed for photos with them) they have profiles on each little terrorist wannabe which reveals they know jack about Irish history or culture.

[General Staff]

Collins always struck me as a JFDI 'sort it' kind of guy.

Like most folks from Cork- it's hard enough to understand what they say, let alone what they do, and if it's among themselves forget it with either.

[The Highwayman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82XekR_5ymo

[Anglopole]

Originally Posted by The Highwayman

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82XekR_5ymo

Definately gave me a giggle.

[The Highwayman]

I almost forgot to post this.