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Go Back   Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History > Current Events > Latin America & the Caribbean > Haiti

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Haiti Jan 2010 Earthquake in Haiti. .

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  #31  
Old 02 Feb 10, 14:33
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Cool ..we'll be there until WHEN???

Just a few questions...How will we know when to leave Haiti? How will we know that all the $$ and food and materiel go to the correct people and not to the (corrupt) government? How do we go about educating the Haitians in self sufficiency? and what happened to the First and Fourth Fleets?


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  #32  
Old 03 Feb 10, 09:58
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Originally Posted by TacCovert4 View Post
Naval Aviation would be aghast at the thought of having the (ch)Air Force (couldn't resist the jibe) flying off of their decks. Heck, they barely put up with Marine Aviation, and we've been working together since the very beginning.

That said, the US military does not need to build some humanitarian fleet bull. If it was wanted that badly, the UN should have taken some of the trillions of dollars they've wasted since 1946 and built a humanitarian fleet of their own. But no, they prefer to give money to tinpot dictators, insult the US, and generally prove themselves useless. Lack of planning on their part does not constitute an additional expense, or emergency, on our part.
It can't. It never could. It's simply not how the UN system is set up. And it was set up largely by the US post-45. Besides, the US would never allow independant UN assets of this kind, stuff what might at least begin to compete with its own.
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  #33  
Old 03 Feb 10, 10:37
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Naval Aviation would be aghast at the thought of having the (ch)Air Force (couldn't resist the jibe) flying off of their decks.
I was just thinking of landing in an emergency. And it would have to be pretty desperate for a USAF plane to land on a USN carrier.

I doubt whether they'd need to or could take off again. Probably just slum it with the lads until they got to shore.
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  #34  
Old 03 Feb 10, 11:00
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Originally Posted by Johan Banér View Post
It can't. It never could. It's simply not how the UN system is set up. And it was set up largely by the US post-45. Besides, the US would never allow independent UN assets of this kind, stuff what might at least begin to compete with its own.
Sure it was set up post-45 by the US, but by the major combatant victors, not the dross of the 3rd world's kleptocrats, which is what it seems to me now.

And why would the US Military allow competition for assets and resource with the UN, when it knows and is considered by most observers to be by far more efficient bang for $?
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  #35  
Old 05 Feb 10, 05:43
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Sure it was set up post-45 by the US, but by the major combatant victors, not the dross of the 3rd world's kleptocrats, which is what it seems to me now.
That's because it operates according to the principle of sovreignity. (We can thank the 16th c. European wars of religion and the 1648 Peace of Westphalia for that principle.) No point in having a forum for all sovereign actors and then excluding some because you dislike them. Defeats the purpose of doing preventive diplomacy through the UN.
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And why would the US Military allow competition for assets and resource with the UN, when it knows and is considered by most observers to be by far more efficient bang for $?
Precisely what I was wondering, considering how the poster I reacted to had (or hadn't) figured this would work out.
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  #36  
Old 05 Feb 10, 13:36
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Defeats the purpose of doing preventative diplomacy through the UN.
I just completely miss the point of the UN today. It may have worked post-WWII as let's all get together and be good but now seems to have just become a social club for the kleptocrats of the world.

I mean how many 3rd world klepto creatures get flash NYC lifestyles courtesy off the back of this monster, and who pays for it?

Oddly enough, rather like the League of Nations in earlier days, who it eerily now resembles.

If it was a running business, it would be considered as 'not fit for purpose'.
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  #37  
Old 06 Feb 10, 05:53
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Originally Posted by General Staff View Post
I just completely miss the point of the UN today. It may have worked post-WWII as let's all get together and be good but now seems to have just become a social club for the kleptocrats of the world.

I mean how many 3rd world klepto creatures get flash NYC lifestyles courtesy off the back of this monster, and who pays for it?

Oddly enough, rather like the League of Nations in earlier days, who it eerily now resembles.

If it was a running business, it would be considered as 'not fit for purpose'.
We can always go back to playing Great Power politics through alliances, like we did previously. Not that I would recommend it, considering what that situation looked like.
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  #38  
Old 06 Feb 10, 06:13
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We can always go back to playing Great Power politics through alliances, like we did previously. Not that I would recommend it, considering what that situation looked like.
Go back? Seems we're still doing it, just now with a bloated UN bureaucracy trading 3rd world votes for favors, often then placed in Swiss++ bank accounts.
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  #39  
Old 06 Feb 10, 06:41
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Originally Posted by General Staff View Post
Go back? Seems we're still doing it, just now with a bloated UN bureaucracy trading 3rd world votes for favors, often then placed in Swiss++ bank accounts.
Well, I think we will notice when we start to actually approach the pre-WWII state of things.
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Old 06 Feb 10, 08:48
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Well, I think we will notice when we start to actually approach the pre-WWII state of things.
Sure. 1936 and Abyssinia.

I suppose the 'acid test' of this is whether I would donate any money to help Haiti- or anywhere else for that matter- through the UN.

Never, ever.

IMO there are far more effective and efficient organizations to distribute aid- including the US Military- than this bloated bureaucracy.

And if there's a problem with command and control, will the do-gooders just donate and then get out of the way and let the lads get on with it?
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Last edited by General Staff; 06 Feb 10 at 08:51..
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