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World War IIDiscuss WW2. Sponsored by World War II magazine.
No-one calls the english tommys here any more if trying to insult them (to the best of my knowledge). Usually if reffered to degoritory, they are called "Inselaffen" = island apes...
Having been insulted widely on German Forums (I have no idea why!) I can confirm this 'island ape' retort is common. I had to ask what it meant and did not have the heart to inform them I was actualy Irish!
On the topic of german soilders better topic,inn the past,WWII,it is morly likley yes,german troops were better during WWII.
Inn 2004,American troops were being trianed by german troops,and why ist this? german troops can help make American soilders more better,other wise,german troops would not have to trianed the Americans!
What amazes me is that all these threads avoid the main point-
German troops had a better efficiency rating because of the way its officers were trained.Not better weapons, not racial superiority and not dumb luck.
ah, forget it.
Agreed, but actually the German army went backwards during the war. The degree of autonomy of the average German corps commander in 1940 was much much much greater than that same officer in 1944.
In fact, Stalin and Hitler virtually flip flopped in this regard, with Hitler tightening his command and tactic control whilst Stalin was divesting authority to several of his more trusted commanders.
Hence, Red Army tactical prowless was drastically improved throughout the war while German command initiative withered and died.
You want to see German efficency plummet under even Dupuy's questionable system? Simply pick at random German divisions based on their ratio to the whole army. That is, put mostly leg infantry formations in the mix instead of almost entirely making the mix panzer and panzergrenadier formations.
The Germans will be far, far worse off as a result. One cannot judge the German army on the 10% or so of elite and semi-elite formations they had but rather on the 90% of divisions that composed most of their army.
Having been insulted widely on German Forums (I have no idea why!) I can confirm this 'island ape' retort is common. I had to ask what it meant and did not have the heart to inform them I was actualy Irish!
Mick, I find it staggering that you would ever provoke such a scandalous response from the Nibelungs!
You want to see German efficency plummet under even Dupuy's questionable system? Simply pick at random German divisions based on their ratio to the whole army. That is, put mostly leg infantry formations in the mix instead of almost entirely making the mix panzer and panzergrenadier formations.
The Germans will be far, far worse off as a result. One cannot judge the German army on the 10% or so of elite and semi-elite formations they had but rather on the 90% of divisions that composed most of their army.
Must admit you are about right there T.A., to be fair though if it means anything in this debate I personally thought that the majority of the German 'Plods' from whatever units were extremely well disciplined and providing the orders that were given to them were realistic in the first place, their discipline must have counted for something?
One cannot judge the German army on the 10% or so of elite and semi-elite formations they had but rather on the 90% of divisions that composed most of their army.
Their new tactics of blitzkrieg wouldn't have worked unless their mechanized units bore the brunt of the fighting, they were the spearhead, they went first, not infantry charging on foot.
That is not to say that I (for instance) would judge their army solely on their mechanized units or elite formations, I wouldn't do that with any army.
but, you do not conquer 5 countries in 3 months let alone advance in the east in such a rapid pace, on foot, I don't care who you are.
Last edited by walle; 28 Dec 09 at 14:44..
Reason: spelling...
You want to see German efficency plummet under even Dupuy's questionable system? Simply pick at random German divisions based on their ratio to the whole army. That is, put mostly leg infantry formations in the mix instead of almost entirely making the mix panzer and panzergrenadier formations.
The Germans will be far, far worse off as a result. One cannot judge the German army on the 10% or so of elite and semi-elite formations they had but rather on the 90% of divisions that composed most of their army.
To be fair, I thought even the leg infantry in Italy were generally better under Dupuy's calcs. It was simply more pronounced with the mechanised formations, although they were better equipped so this may not have been merely a question of training.
Also, given 26 Panzer, a dozen PZGR, half a dozen Waffen SS, half a dozen FJ or HG, some army elites like the GD etc, all of which were rebuilt numerous times, the Germans maintained a high proportion of elite or semi elite formations relative to the Infantry arm. Also, their infantry formations after 1943 were largely staffed with men who would not have gotten into British or American Divisions, but still often performed well when up against Allied formations.
It has got easier over the years. Hardly anything I hear is new and I usualy have a reply ready and waiting for all the 'killer ripostes'.
Quite boring really!
No-one calls the english tommys here any more if trying to insult them (to the best of my knowledge). Usually if reffered to degoritory, they are called "Inselaffen" = island apes...
I was talking about the past, WWII the Brits were called limmeys and tommies,as for island ape,I am pretty sure germans do not call brits in present day island apes,is cause germany ist on briton side as an allied today.(wwii,yes)
My post before..I was not talking about cilvialain life or present days,just WWII.
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Mick, I find it staggering that you would ever provoke such a scandalous response from the Nibelungs! 
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