Vietnam War Casualties

[Vo Nguyen Giap]

I searched for the casualty numbers of the Vietnam War, and this is all I could come up with

NVA and VC military deaths : 1.1 million (official Vietnam figure)
ARVN military deaths : 181,000 - 650,000
Civilian deaths in South : 50,000 - 2 million
Civillian deaths in the North : 65,000
US military deaths : 60,000
Other allies military deaths : 6000


Can anyone come up with better numbers?

Thanks in advance.

[altus]

Originally Posted by Vo Nguyen Giap

Can anyone come up with better numbers?

Why don't you just google "Vietnam War Casualties"?

[trailboss49]

So, uncle Ho was responsible for somewhere between 50,000 and 2,000,000 civilians of a free country huh? Well, always knew the worhless bearded jerk was a mass murderer, thanks for proving it.

[Vo Nguyen Giap]

Originally Posted by trailboss49

So, uncle Ho was responsible for somewhere between 50,000 and 2,000,000 civilians of a free country huh? Well, always knew the worhless bearded jerk was a mass murderer, thanks for proving it.

A sizable portion of that 2 million is due to the action of South Vietnamese government and US forces. If Diem held the elections as he agreed, none would have got killed, including 60,000 Americans.

And about 1 million people died (3% of the population) during the American Civil War. Do you call Abe Lincoln a mass murderer ?

[Chippymick]

Originally Posted by Vo Nguyen Giap

A sizable portion of that 2 million is due to the action of South Vietnamese government and US forces. If Diem held the elections as he agreed, none would have got killed, including 60,000 Americans.

And about 1 million people died (3% of the population) during the American Civil War. Do you call Abe Lincoln a mass murderer ?

Hi General.

I'm reminded of the story about the trainee locomotive driver undergoing his final test.

The instructor says. "You've reached maximum speed and 3 kilometres ahead you see an obstruction on the rails, what do you do?

Trainee: I apply maximum brakes.

Instructor: Your brakes fail, what do you do?

Trainee: I immediately apply the emergency brakes.

Instructor: They fail too. Think quick!

Trainee: I throw the locomotive into reverse.

Instructor: The main bus blows and you're in angel gear. What do you do?

Trainee: I get my mobile phone and call my brother.

Instructor: (puzzled) Why do you do that?

Trainee: Because, he's never seen a train smash before.


Thanks for the entertainment. Must fly, I've got to phone my brother.

Cheers

Mick

[Vo Nguyen Giap]

Since you doesn't seem to understand the concept of civilized conversation, let me ask you a simple question. It would be really great if you can give an honest answer. If not, please post only relevantly to the topic.

Question:
in 1788, there was an estimated population of 750,000 Aborigines in Australia. In 1900 their number was 93,000. What happened to all those people ?????

Tricky one huh?

[Chippymick]

Double post

[Chippymick]

Originally Posted by Vo Nguyen Giap

Since you doesn't seem to understand the concept of civilized conversation, let me ask you a simple question. It would be really great if you can give an honest answer. If not, please post only relevantly to the topic.

Question:
in 1788, there was an estimated population of 750,000 Aborigines in Australia. In 1900 their number was 93,000. What happened to all those people ?????

Tricky one huh?

Not really.

In 1901 we gained our independence from our colonial masters and became proud Australians.

Take it up with the Poms.

The Sinhala only act, back at you.

The consequences of which are bobbing around the Indian Ocean as we speak.

Well done.

I've got more respect for Vietnamese of all stripes, in their management of post colonial succession, then I have for any Ceylonese.

Sri Lanka and Pakistan are the only two places Vietnamese can point to today and say with their hand on their heart, 'at least we did better than them.'

Sometimes I wished the Vietnamese played Cricket.

It would make the world a better place.

Regards

Mick

[trailboss49]

Originally Posted by Vo Nguyen Giap

A sizable portion of that 2 million is due to the action of South Vietnamese government and US forces. If Diem held the elections as he agreed, none would have got killed, including 60,000 Americans.

And about 1 million people died (3% of the population) during the American Civil War. Do you call Abe Lincoln a mass murderer ?

Of course I knew you would blame the USA and Allies for a million deaths. And, of course that is total rubbish and communist propoganda.

Was Abraham Lincoln a mass murderer? I do not recall the military under Abraham Lincoln ever invading a soverign nation. So, your insane argument about the Vietnam conflict being a 'civil war' holds no water. But under the direction of "The Great Emancipator" then the primary numbers of dead occured upon the field of battle. There were not 2,000,000 civilians slaughtered upon his orders, unlike those of Uncle Ho and the Vo the illogical logitician.

[KEN JENSEN]

hmmm, Think most can agree that "body counts" are a little vague aren't they!!!!

Also,
Think Vietnam was a sovereign nation (a few times in it's history) - anticipate it changing again. Also the U.S. was until some folks tried to enforce the "Mason-Dixon Line"

I laugh when someone states something and then someone counters with opposition faults! Sounds like my little kids (way back when) - "He breathed on me"! "But, he breathed on me first"!

Or us (so called) adults - "I can piss further than you".

heeheehee, my pissin days are over since prostate was invented. I now sit like sis to pea (drip, drip). Use to stand like Dad! Oh my! Maybe TMI here!

[lirelou]

If Diem held the elections as he agreed, none would have got killed, including 60,000 Americans.

No so, according to this history: http://www.history.army.mil/books/Vi...ntrol/ch01.htm

The Geneva Accords of 20 July 1954 officially ended the fighting in Indochina. As a condition for its participation in the Geneva conference, the United States stipulated that an armistice agreement must at least preserve the southern half of Vietnam. This prerequisite was fulfilled by dividing Vietnam at the 17th parallel. The Geneva agreement also gave independence to Laos and Cambodia. Neither the United States nor the government of South Vietnam formally acknowledged the Geneva Accords, but in a separate, unilateral declaration the United States agreed to adhere to the terms of the agreements.

Note that South Vietnam never signed the Accords. Diem was not obliged to hold such a referendum.

[imold]

I wouldn’t be surprised if the South (and/or North) Vietnamese civilian casualty rate was higher than estimated. For example, nobody really knew how many people lived in the Cholon (Chinese section, next to the Phu Tho racetrack) area of Saigon (the name at the time), but when I flew into Saigon on the morning of TET ’68, with the sun not quite up, Cholon was the largest fire I’ve ever seen, looked like all of it was burning. I’ve wondered how many people could have escaped from that inferno. The story I heard was that opposing artillery (rockets, mortars?) were fired from the edge of the racetrack, and responding American artillery started the fire in adjacent Cholon. Construction in Vietnam was unfortunately often flammable; I saw similar fires destroy civilian homes when downwind from combat fires, or even hit by a tracer – those thatch roofs burned all too easily. Casualty rates were often just a guess – or a fiction, depending on the purpose of the party reporting them. I don't think any government involved in the war had much concern for civilians. Contrary to what our media liked to report, I heard "hold fire, civilians" a number of times, so American military did make an effort to avoid civilian casualties. Ironically, from what I saw, South Vietnamese forces weren't as concerned. I'd really like to have a cup of coffee someday with someone I shot at, or shot at me, and say, "Isn't it great we missed".

[Miss Saigon]

Originally Posted by lirelou

Note that South Vietnam never signed the Accords. Diem was not obliged to hold such a referendum.

No one signed that famous document. How many times do we hear about what that document enjoined, yet no one of importance signed it. Everyone watched, but no one wanted to affix their signiture to it.

A representative of the French signed it. They were done in Viet Nam and had no authority to commit anyone to anything.

And a representative of the Viet Minh signed it. And they only represented themselves, and they were controlled by the communists and wouldn't know a free election until it bit them (one day it will too).

Now, had someone held elections to constitute a legitimate government and then a representative of that government signed the agreement it might have been worth something. As it was it was worth nothing.

[KEN JENSEN]

Originally Posted by imold

Contrary to what our media liked to report, I heard "hold fire, civilians" a number of times, so American military did make an effort to avoid civilian casualties. Ironically, from what I saw, South Vietnamese forces weren't as concerned. I'd really like to have a cup of coffee someday with someone I shot at, or shot at me, and say, "Isn't it great we missed".

AMEN BROTHER!

Welcome to our Great Forum. I served as a Plt. Leader with the 1st ID July 67-Feb 68. Who was you with and when?

[altus]

Originally Posted by Miss Saigon

A representative of the French signed it. They were done in Viet Nam

Correct observation. Would you like to elaborate how come they "were done" like that?