France and 1940 = French bashing? Why

[Freightshaker]

Originally Posted by Full Monty

What war was Lennon referring to though? And could it be that it was the film that made reference to 'the English Army' leaving Lennon to quote directly.

But I like the satire there.

Maybe he was watching the "World at War" documentary series. It can be a bit slanted at times.

[The Purist]

Originally Posted by krabenhoft6

france was ready for the invasion but were still stuck on WWI tactics leading to there quick downfall

Lord, Lord, Lord,.... give me strength.

krabenhoft6,... bitte. Read the links. It wasn't "simple" at all.

[jpg]

Originally Posted by krabenhoft6

its kinda simple
france was ready for the invasion but were still stuck on WWI tactics leading to there quick downfall

Ich habe oft festgestellt, daß zahlreiche Deutsche wie Sie eine zu simplifizierende Betrachtungsweise der Rolle von Frankreich während des zweiten Weltkrieges hatten. Ich kritisiere Sie nicht sondern das ist eine einfache Feststellung .


I often noticed that numerous Germans had as you a too simplistic vision of the role of France during the second world war. I do not criticize you but it is a simple observation .

[jpg]

Originally Posted by Full Monty

And not only the French!! Some may view it differently but I think it's a linguistic reference rather than a nationalist one. Given that the USA is included in the term and its society is multi-racial and multi-lingual if any large groups were going to take offence it would be from there.

I would not disagree too much with FM on this. I see it as a very general term which is (I am guessing) intended to refer to peoples of a mostly similar ethnic/cultural/linguistic mix. Primarily represented by a majority of people in Britain I suppose, but also making up a substantial proportion of many english speaking countries such as Australia, New Zealand and as FM indicated, the USA although all of these have other mixes within them, to varying degrees.

I have sometimes found myself using the term 'Anglo-Celtic' in a somewhat similar fashion.

I remember that on an American blog, I had used this word without thinking that it would shock but an American explained me that it was racist and hurtful for her because she had Indian and Hispanic roots. She preferred that I use the English-speaking word .

[Full Monty]

Originally Posted by The Purist

Lord, Lord, Lord,.... give me strength.

krabenhoft6,... bitte. Read the links. It wasn't "simple" at all.

This is a good piece.

French Operational Art: 1888-1940

[The Purist]

Originally Posted by Full Monty

This is a good piece.

French Operational Art: 1888-1940

I've added this to my bookmarks (it keeps growing every few weeks).

Doughty's analysis of why French doctrine failed is solid but his various works do lack any investigation in to other challenges faced by the French military (or France in general). He begins with the defeat and Sedan and he works backward looking solely at the military reasons behind the defeat. Imo, to get the whole view of what happened and why one needs to look at the full spectrum of events covering politics, diplomacy, economics, French society and the development of French doctrine and operational art.

Examining the military aspects alone leaves too many unanswered questions. Of course, Doughty is not attempting a comprehensive investigation and he is limiting his scope to military matters.

[Dibble201Bty]

Originally Posted by kelt06

As you are painfully aware, Guillaume le Conquérant army was in majority constituted of Frenchmen from the west and north, with a sprinkling of third or fourth generation Norsemen turned Normands.



Banter ? What Dibble201Bty posted twice, (since the 1st time he didn't get any attention), didn't look like banter to me and I ought to take offense at an Angle playing mouthpiece to the barbarians with his "Saxon apology".

As for the Pound/Euro exchange rate, that was serious information !


kelt

Well Kelt, No Saxon apology meant, and how do you know who read my post? I would tell you to go and calm yourself down with a cool relaxing glass of water but seeing you are hydrophobic as well; perhaps not.

BYEEE!!!

Paul

[Von Richter]

I don't think Kelt's ever forgive us for his great, great, great Grandad getting an 'arrer up his jacksey at Agincourt!

[panther3485]

Originally Posted by Von Richter

I don't think Kelt's ever forgive us for his great, great, great Grandad getting an 'arrer up his jacksey at Agincourt!

If anything, I doubt it was English or Welsh archery skills that got his dander up. More likely, it was hacking their nobles to death when it was customary in those days to capture and ransom them.

[panther3485]

Originally Posted by kelt06

Bof, why should I keep today's Bitish responsible for what happened so long ago? and since some of my ancestors went accross La Manche in 1066 to invande England and made it a permanent home you should be the pissed off party!

Azincourt, yes, the English won a battle there but only to loose the hundred years War.

That's just the thing though, I reckon. None of us today should feel the need to be "pissed off" about crap that happened hundreds of years ago.

The study of the history is very interesting and useful though, because it helps us to understand how and why we got where we are today.
And the smiley was carefully chosen, to show that we should all be friends now.

[kelt06]

Originally Posted by Dibble201Bty

Well Kelt, No Saxon apology meant, and how do you know who read my post? I would tell you to go and calm yourself down with a cool relaxing glass of water but seeing you are hydrophobic as well; perhaps not.

BYEEE!!!

Paul

Well I'll be having a wee drop of sparkling water (Badoit, Vichy water is banned for life at home) in my Mojito, with a few leaves of mint from the garden.

Originally Posted by Von Richter

I don't think Kelt's ever forgive us for his great, great, great Grandad getting an 'arrer up his jacksey at Agincourt!

Bof, why should I keep today's British responsible for what happened so long ago? and since some of my ancestors went accross La Manche in 1066 to invade England and made it a permanent home then you should be the pissed off party!

Azincourt, yes, yes, one of the numerous battles of the hundred years War that the English managed to loose despite the very large assistance provided by French warlords, another reason for your lot to be the pissed off party.

kelt

[kelt06]

Originally Posted by panther3485

That's just the thing though, I reckon. None of us today should feel the need to be "pissed off" about crap that happened hundreds of years ago.

The study of the history is very interesting and useful though, because it helps us to understand how and why we got where we are today.
And the smiley was carefully chosen, to show that we should all be friends now.

I fully agree with you here!

By the way, you captured my message before I had time to refine it, clear the typos and stick the reply to Paul, hence your message ends up published first.

I may appear hostile to some of you here since I post mostly critics (some of the British and associated states citizen here are so good at self shoe-shining that they don't need outside help) but that is not the case at all, I have always very much enjoyed working and visiting your side of the channel as well as the ex colonies.
Don't misread my critics here as hostility, I'm as critic about French events and history when needed.

kelt

[panther3485]

Originally Posted by kelt06

I fully agree with you here!

By the way, you captured my message before I had time to refine it, clear the typos and stick the reply to Paul, hence your message ends up published first.

I may appear hostile to some of you here since I post mostly critics (some of the British and associated states citizen here are so good at self shoe-shining that they don't need outside help) but that is not the case at all, I have always very much enjoyed working and visiting your side of the channel as well as the ex colonies.
Don't misread my critics here as hostility, I'm as critic about French events and history when needed.

kelt

Fair enough.

[asterix]

Probably worth it's own thread, but I see that Azincourt has reared it's head here. ;-) I felt this was worth bringing up:

Historians Reassess Battle of Agincourt

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/25/wo...agincourt.html