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Old 13 Sep 17, 21:43
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Stonewall_Jack Stonewall_Jack is offline
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Originally Posted by Massena View Post
You didn't answer the two questions put to you.

I said nothing, nor did I ask a question, regarding the respect for any religion by the Founders. That would be inherent in the Constitution when written with the addition of the Bill of Rights.

The nature of my questions was regarding an unfortunate practice today of attributing 'things' to the Founders that are inaccurate. That is how your posting struck me. And I'm not talking about who you admire, but the questions were about the philosophes and the Founders.

The google information you referenced said little or nothing regarding my questions. And the one that referenced Jefferson and the Constitution I found curious, as Jefferson had nothing to do with the writing and passage of the Constitution as he was ambassador to France at the time. He was opposed to it, however, a de facto anti-Federalist.
Yes you did not comment on how you thought of Islam, but you referred to Islam as a conquering religion, now I already said I dont mind any criticisims of any of the three religions of Abraham, I asked the question to you because you use the word Moslem not Muslim, and you made the conqueror comment, whether you want to address the question matter not to me, I was merely curious.

You can say I did not answer the questions that you posed to me, but I answered the questions. The fiqh council site provides an argument that the founders were influenced by Islam. John Locke was influenced by Islam, and the founders were influenced by Locke. Thomas Jefferson was a founder and indeed I provided links that reported that Jefferson was influenced by Islam.

John Locke’s Islamic connection could possibly be traced back to his Socinian association. H. J. McLachlan and John Marshall have clearly proved that John Locke was an outright Socinian. Socinianism was a system of Christian doctrine named for Fausto Sozzini (Latin: Faustus Socinus), which was developed among the Polish Brethren in the Minor Reformed Church of Poland during the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries. Martin Mulsow observes,

Socinianism…or, broader: anti-trinitarianiism was often paralleled to Islam: both the Christian heresy and the Muslim religion reject the doctrine of the Trinity and regard Jesus only as a prophet, not as a god. There are indeed numerous historical connections between both currents. From Michael Servetus onward, the Qur’ān and islamic writings had an impact on the emerging Socinian critique. Antitrinitarians tried to establish a historical genealogy from early (Ebionite) Christianity through Islam (which preserved the true monotheistic idea) to the present.”


Therefore, the American dream of “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness” is a summarized version of the five objectives of Islamic Shari’ah highlighted by Ibn Tufail and incorporated by John Locke in his Treatises. There is no inherent conflict between the American dream and principles of the Islamic Shari’ah. Americans need not fear Islam or Islamic Shari’ah and Muslims should not hate, despise, or doubt the American dream. In its purest sense, it reflects their religious ideals and a manifestation of their lost legacy.

John Locke (August 1632 – 28 October 1704), was accused of being a “Moslim” by his adversaries such as John Edwards (1637–1716), an ordained Deacon and English Calvinistic divine, because his religious beliefs and political outlook closely resembled the Islamic teachings. Locke argued in his “Reasonableness of Christianity” (1695) that Jesus was neither God nor divine but just a Messiah. He advocated that the Church should reject its hierarchical structure and authority, abandon its irrational beliefs such as Trinity and superstitious theology including beliefs in mysteries and miracles, forfeit its creed and sacraments, its pagan liturgy, customs and traditions in favor of one requirement for membership and salvation- to acknowledge and believe that Jesus Christ was the Messiah, the King of righteous believers. It is plain, argued Locke, “that the gospel was writ to induce men into a belief of this proposition, “That Jesus of Nazareth was the Messiah;” which if they believed, they should have life.” He further argued that “all that was to be believed for justification, was no more but this single proposition, that “Jesus of Nazareth was the Christ, or the Messiah.”

I find the founders at least part of them were influenced by the greatness of Islam. Early Muslims fought alongside Jews and Christians against their common enemy. It is a breath of fresh air to hear Muslims in the Iraqi military talking about how early Muslims were into equality among man and thats maybe why some of the founders admired Islam. That is not unfortunate that I am connecting Islam and Catholics like Henry II to the founders... its a viewpoint backed by numerous sources and I will continue to provide this view no matter what is said in response.
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The philosophy of the gospel is the philosophy of equality, consequently the most favorable to republican government
-Napoleon Bonaparte
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