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Old 27 Jun 15, 23:49
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Real Name: T. A. Gardner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Draco View Post
OTL Saratoga took a torpedo some distance SW of Oahu in January, despite a nice fleet accompanying her. I'd like to see a slow CVE launching fighters over 2,000 miles from California with a smaller escort (since the Pacific fleet is mostly gone), despite Japanese subs, planes, warships, etc, based in Hawaii.
It has been demonstrated, repeatedly, and thoroughly that the Japanese fleet cannot remain a week off Hawaii. Unless you can put up factual evidence to the contrary that supports your position, don't keep posting things that have already been discredited.

As for Saratoga... She arrived at Pearl on 15 December carrying her air group plus VMF 221. She left Pearl a day later for Wake. Instead, she was recalled just before Wake fell and delivered VMF 221 to Midway on December 25.
She was torpedoed 420 NM southwest of Pearl (the wrong side if a carrier were flying off aircraft and retiring) on 11 Jan 42.
So, your commentary above is extremely weak evidence that the Japanese could stop an aerial reinforcement.
As it was historically, the US made up their losses of aircraft in Hawaii by late January 1942 even with a five week halt to individual ship sailings


Quote:
I'd also like to see B-17s landing and operating safely despite Japanese planes all over the place.
I'd like to see you prove that the Japanese can operate any land based aircraft at all in the Hawaiian islands for land bases in under two months. All the historical evidence is against you. Show a case where the Japanese captured an airfield that had no available services, or minimal ones, and operated military land based aircraft from it in squadron strength in less than 60 days.

Quote:
If the US was so mighty and invincible, why didn't it save the PI or even Wake with the large fleet (including 3 carriers) and abundant planes (including 8 B-17) that remained after the PH attack? In this scenario the US is much weaker, since it losses all the ships and planes in Hawaii, yet You are landing planes in Oahu.
Because the US understood an important military axiom: Never reinforce defeat. The US in pre-war planning had assumed that the Philippines would fall. It was only in the year or so before the war began that the US changed their policy and began reinforcing the PI. If that plan, to be finished in August 1942, had been completed, the Japanese wouldn't have taken the Philippines.

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Green Filipinos with rifles, MGs, etc, are just as useless as the troops, tanks, coastal guns, field artillery, etc, in Oahu without planes and warships.

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Even if the Japanese get bored after several months of inactivity and want to take Luzon to get comfort women, allied infantry with MGs, etc, and without supplies or reinforcements are pretty useless against tanks, planes and naval guns as the invasions proved OTL in the PI, Burma, Malaya, the DEI, Hong Kong, Wake, Rabaul, etc,
This doesn't even dignify a response.

Oh, for the fourth time, I want you to put up what forces you are using and a timetable of events for everyone to look at.

That you ignore everyone's rebuttals and persist in your original conclusions without a shred of evidence to back them up, it might be time for the mod's to lock this thread as you are not responding to other's posts.
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