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Old 16 Sep 17, 10:23
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Originally Posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post
Yes you did not comment on how you thought of Islam, but you referred to Islam as a conquering religion, now I already said I dont mind any criticisims of any of the three religions of Abraham, I asked the question to you because you use the word Moslem not Muslim, and you made the conqueror comment, whether you want to address the question matter not to me, I was merely curious.

You can say I did not answer the questions that you posed to me, but I answered the questions. The fiqh council site provides an argument that the founders were influenced by Islam. John Locke was influenced by Islam, and the founders were influenced by Locke. Thomas Jefferson was a founder and indeed I provided links that reported that Jefferson was influenced by Islam.

John Locke’s Islamic connection could possibly be traced back to his Socinian association. H. J. McLachlan and John Marshall have clearly proved that John Locke was an outright Socinian. Socinianism was a system of Christian doctrine named for Fausto Sozzini (Latin: Faustus Socinus), which was developed among the Polish Brethren in the Minor Reformed Church of Poland during the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries. Martin Mulsow observes,

Socinianism…or, broader: anti-trinitarianiism was often paralleled to Islam: both the Christian heresy and the Muslim religion reject the doctrine of the Trinity and regard Jesus only as a prophet, not as a god. There are indeed numerous historical connections between both currents. From Michael Servetus onward, the Qur’ān and islamic writings had an impact on the emerging Socinian critique. Antitrinitarians tried to establish a historical genealogy from early (Ebionite) Christianity through Islam (which preserved the true monotheistic idea) to the present.”


Therefore, the American dream of “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness” is a summarized version of the five objectives of Islamic Shari’ah highlighted by Ibn Tufail and incorporated by John Locke in his Treatises. There is no inherent conflict between the American dream and principles of the Islamic Shari’ah. Americans need not fear Islam or Islamic Shari’ah and Muslims should not hate, despise, or doubt the American dream. In its purest sense, it reflects their religious ideals and a manifestation of their lost legacy.

John Locke (August 1632 – 28 October 1704), was accused of being a “Moslim” by his adversaries such as John Edwards (1637–1716), an ordained Deacon and English Calvinistic divine, because his religious beliefs and political outlook closely resembled the Islamic teachings. Locke argued in his “Reasonableness of Christianity” (1695) that Jesus was neither God nor divine but just a Messiah. He advocated that the Church should reject its hierarchical structure and authority, abandon its irrational beliefs such as Trinity and superstitious theology including beliefs in mysteries and miracles, forfeit its creed and sacraments, its pagan liturgy, customs and traditions in favor of one requirement for membership and salvation- to acknowledge and believe that Jesus Christ was the Messiah, the King of righteous believers. It is plain, argued Locke, “that the gospel was writ to induce men into a belief of this proposition, “That Jesus of Nazareth was the Messiah;” which if they believed, they should have life.” He further argued that “all that was to be believed for justification, was no more but this single proposition, that “Jesus of Nazareth was the Christ, or the Messiah.”

I find the founders at least part of them were influenced by the greatness of Islam. Early Muslims fought alongside Jews and Christians against their common enemy. It is a breath of fresh air to hear Muslims in the Iraqi military talking about how early Muslims were into equality among man and thats maybe why some of the founders admired Islam. That is not unfortunate that I am connecting Islam and Catholics like Henry II to the founders... its a viewpoint backed by numerous sources and I will continue to provide this view no matter what is said in response.
Whether or not you 'continue to provide this view' is irrelevant. What is relevant is whether or not 'this view' is accurate.

Perhaps this will help somewhat as a start:

Socinianism definition:

'Socinianism is a heresy concerning the nature of God. It is derived from two brothers of the surname Sozinni who lived in the 1500's in Poland.'


What does this have to do with the Enlightenment, the Founders, the Age of Reason, and Islam?

Further, what someone is accused of may or may not be accurate (as witness a myriad of postings and threads on this site).

Islam was started by Mohammed as a religion to unite Arab tribes into a war of conquest. Mohammed himself was both a merchant and a soldier and his wars of conquest ranged into the middle east and across North Africa. This is in great contrast to Christianity which was begun as a religion of peace.

And Christianity was violently opposed by Islam as witness the centuries of wars waged against the Eastern Roman Empire and anyone else who was not Moslem. Persia was conquered by Islam after it was badly defeated and weakened by the Eastern Romans.

The Crusades began as a request by the Eastern Roman Emperor to fight against the continued encroachment of Islam, by either Arabs or Turks.

I do not see by any reasonable or measureable historical method that Islam had any influence at all on the Enlightenment, the Age of Reason, or the Founders of the United States, not even by a lengthy stretch.
We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
To strive to seek to find and not to yield.
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