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Old 01 Jul 15, 17:25
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Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
There is one other little problem... The second one of Draco's surfaced subs opens fire, the coast defenses that are concentrated along that part of Oahu are going to return fire.
5.5" shell out by the Japanese... 12 to 16" shell inbound to their sub...

It would be one-sided at best. The Japanese would be ineffective while the coast defenses with larger guns than at fort Stevens could easily reply with far greater accuracy.
What couldn't be bothered to look up the harbor defenses of Honolulu and Pearl?
Diamond Head
Harlow 8x 12 inch mortars
Birkhimer 4x 12 inch mortars
Granger Adams 2x 8 inch guns (Barbette)
Battery 155 4x 155mm Panama mounts

Waikiki Beach (also covering Pearls entrance)
Randolph 2x 14 inch guns on Disappearing mounts (25k yards)
Dudley 2x 6 inch guns on Disappearing mounts

Kaakaukukui Reef (entrance to Honolulu harbor)
Battery Tiernon 2x 3 inch guns, pedestal mount

On Sand Island (next to Fort Armstrong)
their should be 4x 155mm Guns on Panama mounts

Pearl Harbor Defenses
FORT WEAVER (Entrance to Pearl)
Winston 2x 16 inch guns, all round firing capable (49k yards)
Weaver 4x 155mm Panama Mounts (21k yards)

FORT KAMEHAMEHA (Entrance to pearl, adjacent to Hickam)
Hasbrouck 8x 12 inch mortars (12k yards)
Closson 2x 12 inch Barbette (long range, 30k yards)
Selfridge 2x 12 inch disappearing guns (18k yards)
Jackson 2x 6 inch disappearing guns (14k yards)
Chandler 2x 3 inch guns (11k yards)
Hawkins 2x 3 inch guns
Kam 4x 155mm Panama mounts

Hatch 2x 16 inch Barbette

Barber's Point
4x 155mm Panama mounts
Browns Camp
4x 8 inch railway guns (24k yards)

and many many more guns like 240mm howitzers (~16k yards)

Better hope the subs are more than 20,000 yards (~11.4 miles) out side of pearl... other wise their going to get hammered by oh the equivalent of a few battleships and heavy cruisers... Even then you still have 2x 14 inch, 2x 12 inch, 4x 16 inch

Interestingly USS Minneapolis (CA-36), along with Hovey and Chandler (both DMS, as ASW screen), where some 20 miles out side of Pearl on the 6th, practically right in the area where the IJN would be forming up to make the ambush...

Originally Posted by Draco View Post
It's useless to argue that the Japanese wasted their huge sub and carrier resources because of poor startegy and tactics and could have done much better, because your narrow mind simply retorts that they coulod not have done better since the US are invincible ‹bermenschen and there is no way the stupid IJN could have done better.

In my opinion the US was extremely lucky that Japan did not press its advantage at the crucial time and that it had years to produce absurdly huge amounts of materiel and servicemen to cover for its incompetence and incredible luck in PH, the Coral Sea, Midway and Guadalcanal, despite doing everything wrong.
You know if the US where doing every thing wrong at Coral sea, Midway and Guadalcanal and still managed to win, what dose that make the IJN who lost?

Last edited by Nebfer; 01 Jul 15 at 17:36..
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