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-   -   ArmA...the ultimate simulator... (http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89829)

Super Six 4 28 Feb 10 14:17

ArmA...the ultimate simulator...
 
ArmA (Armed Assault, as it's called), is pretty much the ultimate military simulator, or milsim. The second one came out last year, and it's even better than the 1st one, which was great to start with. In #1, the player is able to insert teams, extract teams, and provide support with a Black Hawk helicopter, provide infantry support with an Abrams tank, go on a patrol with part of your platoon in Humvees, fly A-10 Warthogs, and much more. Or, if you're on the other side-then you can do the same with an Mi-8, T-72, BRDMs, etc.

The player can also command an AI team of up to three other men, and order them to take positions, attack targets, get into vehicles, etc. You can organize attacks on enemy towns, by coordinating with dedicated player airmen, tankers, and infantry. Wouldn't it be epic if you could designate enemy tanks, have a player scream by and bomb them, then have Black Hawks fly in and load out their teams to attack?

Personally, the player is able to choose between classes, whether its a rifleman with an M4 and ACOG, grenades, and the works, an engineer with an M16 and AT4, or sniper, with an M24 and M9 (dont forget theres also the AK74, SVD, RPG-7, etc.). Players also have night vision capability, and as stated, laser designators.

The 2nd one just offers a hell of a lot more epicness lol

Golani 28 Feb 10 16:19

Checking in before Mackie and Nokturnal! :D

Mackie 28 Feb 10 16:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golani (Post 1429400)
Checking in before Mackie and Nokturnal! :D

Damn you! Quicker off the draw with the keyboard. :laugh:

Golani 28 Feb 10 16:29

Got to say, after the last thread I downloaded A.C.E like you fellows recommended, it is awesome, but crashes with all my other addons.

Besides, a thought came to my mind (bare with me, it's a special event :) ) shouldn't VBS 1 be cheaper by now(when 2 is already out for a while)..?

Super Six 4 28 Feb 10 19:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golani (Post 1429405)
Got to say, after the last thread I downloaded A.C.E like you fellows recommended, it is awesome, but crashes with all my other addons.

Besides, a thought came to my mind (bare with me, it's a special event :) ) shouldn't VBS 1 be cheaper by now(when 2 is already out for a while)..?

A thought came through my mind too: GET BACK ON THE FREAKING TOPIC!

Nokturnal 28 Feb 10 22:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golani (Post 1429400)
Checking in before Mackie and Nokturnal! :D

Haha, well you're too quick for me :p

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golani
Got to say, after the last thread I downloaded A.C.E like you fellows recommended, it is awesome, but crashes with all my other addons.

This is my main issue with ACE too, hopefully by the time it's fully released it will be capable of working side-by-side the other great mods out there. Some mods are simply being added to ACE (weapons/vehicles and the sort) but not all mod makers are willing to work together.
The only part i don't really like are the ACE sounds. They might sound better than the default BIS sounds - But there are alot of much better sound mods out there, covering everything from enviornment noises, to bullets, explosions and improved vehicle sounds.
Only way i've found to get around this is by creating a folder and copy/pasting the desired sounds (ie footsteps & ambiance from VopSound, weapons from HIFI, vehicle sounds from...forgot the guys name :rolleyes:) and then if you use one of the launcher programs, you can prioritize it and make it so your sounds are loaded before (and overwrite) ACE sounds.


Personally i've stopped using ACE all the time, and only load it up when a mission i've downloaded requires it.
I still think alot of features in ACE should of been standard in-game, such as deployable bipods, the spotting rifle for the SMAW, adjustable nightvision, and i'm sure there are a few others i can't remember.
The good thing is, i've heard that alot of the features from ACE in Arma1 later made their way to the vanilla Arma2, so perhaps A3 will contain some of these newly created features.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golani
Besides, a thought came to my mind (bare with me, it's a special event ) shouldn't VBS 1 be cheaper by now(when 2 is already out for a while)..?

Well i'd say it would be cheaper than VBS2, but you will probably still be paying a couple of hundred $$$.
Had a quick look, and this is all i could find..
http://www.virtualbattlespace.com/store/ - Redirects to the vbs2 homepage, with the following message
Quote:

Thank you for visiting vbs2.com. For more information about VBS sales and availability please email sales@vbs2.com.

Virtual Battlespace Sales -
VBS and all publicly available modules may be purchased directly from Bohemia Interactive. To submit a Request For Quotation for VBS or a VBS development project, please email sales@vbs2.com
Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Six 4
A thought came through my mind too: GET BACK ON THE FREAKING TOPIC!

Considering VBS1 pre-dates Arma1, i would say it's entirely on topic...
We wouldn't have Arma without VBS.

Super Six 4 01 Mar 10 00:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nokturnal (Post 1429677)
Considering VBS1 pre-dates Arma1, i would say it's entirely on topic...
We wouldn't have Arma without VBS.

Well then use it's actual name-that's why I disregarded it-"VBS1"...ooooooo, ahhhh, whatever THAT means.

Lol but anyways, my bad, but please then actually put its name so other people besides your 3 friends can understand what it means, thanks!

Oh, and technically, it's not entirely on topic-if it was, then it would be about Arma, unless it's the prequel to it, which I doubt it is.

Nokturnal 01 Mar 10 02:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Six 4
Well then use it's actual name-that's why I disregarded it-"VBS1"...ooooooo, ahhhh, whatever THAT means.

Lol but anyways, my bad, but please then actually put its name so other people besides your 3 friends can understand what it means, thanks!

VBS1&2 = Virtual Battlespace Systems (1 and 2).
Sorry mate, i figured most Arma players had atleast heard of it as it's the basis for Arma. It uses the same (modified) engine, contains alot of the same features, and it was released much earlier (2002, so about 4 years).

Just to quickly summarise the series of events:

2001 - Operation Flashpoint: Cold War Crisis is released (Developed by BIS, Published by Codemasters). After the success of OFP, and noticing the engine's potential for military use, Bohemia Interactive Australia is formed and tasked with modifying OFP and creating a program for military training.

2002 - Virtual Battlespace Systems 1 is released to various military organisations (USMC, ADF, IDF etc..) and with their help alot more work was put into the game, changes made and features improved. It was re-released numerous times to those organisations in the form of updates.

2004 - Public release of VBS1. I believe it was watered down slightly (features removed and the sort) for the public. But it was still an impressive leap from OFP and came with quite a hefty price tag of a few hundred dollars.
My understanding is they released this to give the non-military folk an OFP style game to play while waiting for Arma.

2006 - Armed Assault is released, the spiritual successor to OFP:Cold War Crisis. With BIS no longer being on speaking terms with Codemasters, they were unable to use the OFP name.
It's also worth noting that this game used the new and improved Real Virtuality engine that BIS designed.

2007 - VBS2 is released, still using the same engine as ArmA but with more improvements and features as a result of working with the VBS1 customers.
I'm not sure if VBS2 had a separate release date for public and military but once again i've heard that there were features removed here and there so that the public doesn't get everything those military customers have paid so much for.
Also an expansion for Armed Assault is released in '07.

2009 - Arma 2 is released, once again with an updated and greatly improved engine. I won't bother explaining A2 as i'm sure you know about that.



Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Six 4
Oh, and technically, it's not entirely on topic-if it was, then it would be about Arma, unless it's the prequel to it, which I doubt it is.

It's not a prequel in the traditional sense, but as i said - If it weren't for VBS being developed we might of never seen Arma.
Being pretty much the only military training game out there** (Americas Army is a joke in comparison..) it had no competition and would of made alot of money from the VBS sales.


** I realise there are many tank-sims or flight-sims that are used by various military organisations such as Steel Beasts. But VBS is more of an all over military tool, giving them control of vehicles/infantry and everything else involved in the Army, rather than focusing specifically on tanks or other vehicles.

globetrotter 01 Mar 10 02:55

It looks pretty good- don't even think about trying to run it on your average system. According to IGN it's pretty buggy. If I decide to get it I think I'll wait a couple of months for the necessary patches to come out.

Nokturnal 01 Mar 10 03:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by globetrotter (Post 1429790)
It looks pretty good- don't even think about trying to run it on your average system. According to IGN it's pretty buggy. If I decide to get it I think I'll wait a couple of months for the necessary patches to come out.

Like you i too was hesitant to buy it while buggy, i'd heard alot of complaints from people who had bought it and couldn't even play the campaign.
But i joined the crowd at patch 1.03 and by then it had already been patched sufficiently to be playable and very enjoyable.

It's been out for a bit over 6 months now - We're currently at patch 1.05 (excluding beta patches) and it's much more playable than it was upon release. They've even thrown us a Christmas present, a mini-campaign and the return of the AH-64 Apache. :)

They've also made it more optimised for the various systems out there, true you won't be able to play it on the highest settings with a computer that is a few years old. But many people are fine with lowering a detail here and there to improve performance.

The entire campaign, which contained alot of bugs, is now completely playable. As far as i can see the only bugs that remain are so minor they barely effect gameplay, or are simply not noticed at all.

Not trying to convince you to buy it, just pointing out that many of it's original flaws have since been removed/fixed.

globetrotter 01 Mar 10 08:39

Fair enough. I checked out a couple of the community websites; there are scads of good mods for the original ARMA and I suppose ARMA2 will, eventually be very moddable also. I sometimes wonder if the gaming companies put a little less effort into some products because they are aware that the modders will modify or improve it without cost to the company.

Golani 01 Mar 10 09:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Six 4 (Post 1429515)
A thought came through my mind too: GET BACK ON THE FREAKING TOPIC!

I thought this IS the subject...:hmmm:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nokturnal (Post 1429780)
2002 - Virtual Battlespace Systems 1 is released to various military organisations (USMC, ADF, IDF etc..)

Are you sure about that? I never even heard, let alone saw ARMA in the IDF. (or for the matter any other 'game' simulation)


As for VBS 1/2, I sent them a message last time I was home, just as a fun inquiry, never got an answer....

Nokturnal 01 Mar 10 10:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by globetrotter (Post 1429893)
Fair enough. I checked out a couple of the community websites; there are scads of good mods for the original ARMA and I suppose ARMA2 will, eventually be very moddable also. I sometimes wonder if the gaming companies put a little less effort into some products because they are aware that the modders will modify or improve it without cost to the company.

I guess you do have a point, the community for Arma is rather large - Already with Arma2 there are so many mods it feels like we've got an entire game's worth of content for free.
However, it seems alot of other companies these days are actually removing the ability for customers to create mods, for the purpose of making more money later down the track with their DLCs and other updates that come with a price tag.

If they are the two choices, i think i'll stick with the lazy companies who let us play with user-made mods hehe.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Golani
Are you sure about that? I never even heard, let alone saw ARMA in the IDF. (or for the matter any other 'game' simulation)


As for VBS 1/2, I sent them a message last time I was home, just as a fun inquiry, never got an answer....

Well i'm not certain, i'm only going by what i've read on the VBS website:
http://www.virtualbattlespace.com/applications.htm
Quote:

VBS1 is currently used for military training by the following organisations:

* Australian Defence Force
* United States Marine Corps
* United States National Guard
* United States Secret Service
* Isreali Defence Force
I'm not sure they would give the IDF Arma, it's too fun, they'd spend all their time wanting to train. :p
Also it's dissapointing to hear that they didn't reply - I've never tried messaging myself, but i had heard people got replies in the past.
I'll give it a shot tomorrow, will give me something to do while bored at work.


Now, to get back on topic...
I recently found a fun little "instant action" type mission for Arma2. It randomly selects a unit for you, rifleman, AT soldier, sniper etc.. Then places you somewhere in Chernarus with fighting all around you.
You're only objective is to survive, no time limit though, so the creator also gives you the option of placing a target at the other side of the map incase people want to try make it there alive and complete the mission.

It's quite chaotic, vehicles and planes/choppers continue to make appearances, so at times it can be an instant-death. But it's great if you don't have much time to spare and can't play one of the more longer and intense missions.
There is AI fighting for your side too, and if you get within 50m you can make them join your squad and issue orders. (When you do this, you can also team-switch between the units to give yourself extra "lives")


If anyone is interested:
http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=9581

Super Six 4 01 Mar 10 10:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nokturnal (Post 1429780)
VBS1&2 = Virtual Battlespace Systems (1 and 2).
Sorry mate, i figured most Arma players had atleast heard of it as it's the basis for Arma. It uses the same (modified) engine, contains alot of the same features, and it was released much earlier (2002, so about 4 years).

Just to quickly summarise the series of events:

2001 - Operation Flashpoint: Cold War Crisis is released (Developed by BIS, Published by Codemasters). After the success of OFP, and noticing the engine's potential for military use, Bohemia Interactive Australia is formed and tasked with modifying OFP and creating a program for military training.

2002 - Virtual Battlespace Systems 1 is released to various military organisations (USMC, ADF, IDF etc..) and with their help alot more work was put into the game, changes made and features improved. It was re-released numerous times to those organisations in the form of updates.

2004 - Public release of VBS1. I believe it was watered down slightly (features removed and the sort) for the public. But it was still an impressive leap from OFP and came with quite a hefty price tag of a few hundred dollars.
My understanding is they released this to give the non-military folk an OFP style game to play while waiting for Arma.

2006 - Armed Assault is released, the spiritual successor to OFP:Cold War Crisis. With BIS no longer being on speaking terms with Codemasters, they were unable to use the OFP name.
It's also worth noting that this game used the new and improved Real Virtuality engine that BIS designed.

2007 - VBS2 is released, still using the same engine as ArmA but with more improvements and features as a result of working with the VBS1 customers.
I'm not sure if VBS2 had a separate release date for public and military but once again i've heard that there were features removed here and there so that the public doesn't get everything those military customers have paid so much for.
Also an expansion for Armed Assault is released in '07.

2009 - Arma 2 is released, once again with an updated and greatly improved engine. I won't bother explaining A2 as i'm sure you know about that.




It's not a prequel in the traditional sense, but as i said - If it weren't for VBS being developed we might of never seen Arma.
Being pretty much the only military training game out there** (Americas Army is a joke in comparison..) it had no competition and would of made alot of money from the VBS sales.


** I realise there are many tank-sims or flight-sims that are used by various military organisations such as Steel Beasts. But VBS is more of an all over military tool, giving them control of vehicles/infantry and everything else involved in the Army, rather than focusing specifically on tanks or other vehicles.

I understand now, thanks! Sounds great though, but probably couldn't run it on my rig!

Yeah, ArmA is a BIG BIG game...you can't have both on at the same time either really...for the same reason

Damn, this is my first post not in red:mad::thumbsdown::confused::cry::surprise::eek:

Golani 01 Mar 10 14:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nokturnal (Post 1429943)
Well i'm not certain, i'm only going by what i've read on the VBS website:
http://www.virtualbattlespace.com/applications.htm

I'm not sure they would give the IDF Arma, it's too fun, they'd spend all their time wanting to train. :p

Well, either ARMA or VBS, unless they are refering to soldiers who buy it for their own fun :)

I mean, I'm currently serving in the National Training Center, if I haven't seen it by now I find it hard to believe it is used by the IDF (unless it's been used by a secret black ops. unit which I find hard to believe) but anyway I'll try to dig up some info on it, might be interesting...

Quote:

Also it's dissapointing to hear that they didn't reply - I've never tried messaging myself, but i had heard people got replies in the past.
I'll give it a shot tomorrow, will give me something to do while bored at work.
I guess they have their share of incoming $ from the world militaries that they just don't deem it worth all the hassle of selling in the civilian world too.
If it was worth their time they wouldn't make finding sells info on it such a project (unless they want to run some background tests on the buyers) let alone price tag it at about a month worth of salary....

"We gave you ARMA, now shut up".


Quote:

Now, to get back on topic...
I recently found a fun little "instant action" type mission for Arma2. It randomly selects a unit for you, rifleman, AT soldier, sniper etc.. Then places you somewhere in Chernarus with fighting all around you.
You're only objective is to survive, no time limit though, so the creator also gives you the option of placing a target at the other side of the map incase people want to try make it there alive and complete the mission.

It's quite chaotic, vehicles and planes/choppers continue to make appearances, so at times it can be an instant-death. But it's great if you don't have much time to spare and can't play one of the more longer and intense missions.
There is AI fighting for your side too, and if you get within 50m you can make them join your squad and issue orders. (When you do this, you can also team-switch between the units to give yourself extra "lives")


If anyone is interested:
http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=9581
Sounds like fun although a bit pointless.

One of my main issues with ARMA (mainly 2 but 1 as well) is the commaned system.

I enjoy the game a lot more as a simple grunt rather then a commander, it is just to complicated to control.

It's ashame that ALL of the campaign and most of the single missions (community made also) are of you as a unit commander.


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