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Boonierat 08 Jun 06 12:00

This thread is for posting, discussing or asking about Vietnam War-related maps, feel free to share anything relevant here :thumup: (thanks to Ken Hinks aka Sidewinder CC for the idea!)

A few useful links:

DMA L-1501 Series (1:250,000, all of them): http://www.nexus.net/~911gfx/sea-ao.html
DMA L-7014 Series (1:50,000, all of them): http://www.vietnam.ttu.edu/virtualar...s-redirect.htm

Map reading, Vietnam-era:

Part 1 - Map Symbols


Part 2 - Grid, Distance and Elevation

Sidewinder CC 04 Jan 11 15:18

Vietnam Map Case
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KEN JENSEN (Post 1400983)
Could well have been if he made somewhat of a "shaky" landing on the air strip at Phuoc Vinh. I was still at Phuoc Vinh - moved out
of there on the 13th of Sept '67
to Claymore Corner for road clearing (for convoy that was to re-supply Phuoc Vinh). Of course,
him (pilot) being slumped over - everyone that watched the goings on (landing and pulling pilot out of cockpit), ass-um-ed he was dead.
Sure glad your Captain White lived.:salute:

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...ALLGROUP-1.jpg

Ken,

Could you tell me what Brigade of the 1st ID was at Puoc Vinh May '67?

Thanks.

Boonierat 04 Jan 11 15:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sidewinder CC (Post 1701030)
Ken,

Could you tell me what Brigade of the 1st ID was at Puoc Vinh May '67?

Thanks.

The 1st ;)

KEN JENSEN 04 Jan 11 19:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sidewinder CC (Post 1701030)
Ken,

Could you tell me what Brigade of the 1st ID was at Puoc Vinh May '67?

Thanks.

Yep! As always Boonie is correct. The Battalion moved Base Camp to Quan Loi on 29 Nov of '67. Before they got to Quan Loi they were diverted to Bu Dop. Not sure if the whole Brigade moved though - think they did. I was still in Japan (from previous wound). Returned on Dec 4, '67 to Quan Loi and immediately went out to Bu Dop where major battle was taking place. I had been off in Japan healing for 2mths. Dec 3 '67 got drunker then hell in Tokyo then flew out morning of Dec 4th; was in middle of battle with hangover (out of shape) and chitting my pants evening of the 4th. Next day early Patrol out to get shot at a few times. And the chit continued... LOL!

Were you with the 1st ID or at Phuoc Vinh?



http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...ALLGROUP-1.jpg

Sidewinder CC 04 Jan 11 23:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by KEN JENSEN (Post 1701385)
Yep! As always Boonie is correct. The Battalion moved Base Camp to Quan Loi on 29 Nov of '67. Before they got to Quan Loi they were diverted to Bu Dop. Not sure if the whole Brigade moved though - think they did. I was still in Japan (from previous wound). Returned on Dec 4, '67 to Quan Loi and immediately went out to Bu Dop where major battle was taking place. I had been off in Japan healing for 2mths. Dec 3 '67 got drunker then hell in Tokyo then flew out morning of Dec 4th; was in middle of battle with hangover (out of shape) and chitting my pants evening of the 4th. Next day early Patrol out to get shot at a few times. And the chit continued... LOL!

Were you with the 1st ID or at Phuoc Vinh?

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...ALLGROUP-1.jpg

I was at Lai Khe supporting the 3rd Bde. I was with the USAF Birddogs there (Forward Air Control).

Another question...Do you have a map that shows the TAOR of the 1st Bde during '67?

The reason I'm pestering you with these questions is to settle a dispute (that's been going on for several years now) between a former USAF radio operator buddy of mine, that was stationed at Song Be, and me concerning the 1st ID NOT coming to the aid of a couple 5th SF platoons that mixed it up with the NVA and VC in a battle that took place south of Song Be and north of Phuoc Vinh, 3 May '67. The commanding general of the 1st ID said he would come to their aid if needed. The imbattled SF troops called for help but the 1st ID said they couldn't come. My Song Be buddy claims it was the 3rd Bde/1st ID that failed to show up. Of course, being that I was attached to the 3rd Bde, I said no it wasn't...but had no answer as to who it would be. Now, if I can prove to my bud that the battle area was in the 1st BDE AOR I might be able to dummy him up once and for all time. :devil:

KEN JENSEN 05 Jan 11 02:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sidewinder CC (Post 1701546)
I was at Lai Khe supporting the 3rd Bde. I was with the USAF Birddogs there (Forward Air Control).

Another question...Do you have a map that shows the TAOR of the 1st Bde during '67?

The reason I'm pestering you with these questions is to settle a dispute (that's been going on for several years now) between a former USAF radio operator buddy of mine, that was stationed at Song Be, and me concerning the 1st ID NOT coming to the aid of a couple 5th SF platoons that mixed it up with the NVA and VC in a battle that took place south of Song Be and north of Phuoc Vinh, 3 May '67. The commanding general of the 1st ID said he would come to their aid if needed. The imbattled SF troops called for help but the 1st ID said they couldn't come. My Song Be buddy claims it was the 3rd Bde/1st ID that failed to show up. Of course, being that I was attached to the 3rd Bde, I said no it wasn't...but had no answer as to who it would be. Now, if I can prove to my bud that the battle area was in the 1st BDE AOR I might be able to dummy him up once and for all time. :devil:

ROFLOL!

I hear you bud. By the way I went to your profile after my post and seen you with A1st Class stripes. Chit I only made A2nd Class in four years while I was enlisted in the AF.

Have you ever heard of these terms SNAFU (Situation Normal, All Fk'd Up) and/or FUBAR (Fk'ed Up Beyond All Recognition) - LOL well as you know, that was Vietnam!

Anyway here is what I did a few years back as to my adventure....

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...LTACOMPANY.jpg

Don't believe the above will help you much, so here is some additional information.

The above map almost covers all of the 1st Inf DIV (AO). Each Brigade was responsible for specific areas. However, the Battalions within EACH Brigade, operated on what was basically called an RRF (Ready Reaction Force). This meant, any Battalion within any Brigade, may be Air Assaulted anywhere at any time, if available. Basically we (as Platoons, Companies and Battalions) were under control of whichever Brigade was assigned as the Command Control of an operation or location designated by Division. As you see we operated under control of the 1st (our Parent Brigade), but also operated under control of the 2nd and even 3rd Brigade at almost any time.

Song Be was indeed the 1st Bde AO, however at the time and incident your are debating, all Battalions within the 1st Bde may have been committed elsewhere at the time the SF Unit needed aid. Therefore, elements of the 2nd Bde, or 3rd Bde may very well have been assigned to come to the aid of the SF Unit per direction of the Division.

So you maybe right and your buddy maybe right. Who the f'k knows?

LOL - Bonnie KNOWS! If he can't help you I think I maybe able to help - NOT SURE. Bonnie seems to have at his "fingertips" (God Bless him) the necessary source that provides the answer to your question. Whereas, I may have to do a little more digging through my stuff. The source would be After Action Reports and/or Lessons Learned Reports for the DATE in question. These reports do contain who may have been assigned where at specific times and/or operations - NO GUARANTEES though!

If Boonie doesn't come through within a short period (day or two) I'll jump back in and try and help out. LOL - Nothing like "passing the buck" - LOVE IT!




http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...ALLGROUP-1.jpg

Sidewinder CC 06 Jan 11 21:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by KEN JENSEN (Post 1701667)
ROFLOL!

I hear you bud. By the way I went to your profile after my post and seen you with A1st Class stripes. Chit I only made A2nd Class in four years while I was enlisted in the AF.

Have you ever heard of these terms SNAFU (Situation Normal, All Fk'd Up) and/or FUBAR (Fk'ed Up Beyond All Recognition) - LOL well as you know, that was Vietnam!

Anyway here is what I did a few years back as to my adventure....

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...LTACOMPANY.jpg

Don't believe the above will help you much, so here is some additional information.

The above map almost covers all of the 1st Inf DIV (AO). Each Brigade was responsible for specific areas. However, the Battalions within EACH Brigade, operated on what was basically called an RRF (Ready Reaction Force). This meant, any Battalion within any Brigade, may be Air Assaulted anywhere at any time, if available. Basically we (as Platoons, Companies and Battalions) were under control of whichever Brigade was assigned as the Command Control of an operation or location designated by Division. As you see we operated under control of the 1st (our Parent Brigade), but also operated under control of the 2nd and even 3rd Brigade at almost any time.

Song Be was indeed the 1st Bde AO, however at the time and incident your are debating, all Battalions within the 1st Bde may have been committed elsewhere at the time the SF Unit needed aid. Therefore, elements of the 2nd Bde, or 3rd Bde may very well have been assigned to come to the aid of the SF Unit per direction of the Division.

So you maybe right and your buddy maybe right. Who the f'k knows?

LOL - Bonnie KNOWS! If he can't help you I think I maybe able to help - NOT SURE. Bonnie seems to have at his "fingertips" (God Bless him) the necessary source that provides the answer to your question. Whereas, I may have to do a little more digging through my stuff. The source would be After Action Reports and/or Lessons Learned Reports for the DATE in question. These reports do contain who may have been assigned where at specific times and/or operations - NO GUARANTEES though!

If Boonie doesn't come through within a short period (day or two) I'll jump back in and try and help out. LOL - Nothing like "passing the buck" - LOVE IT!




http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...ALLGROUP-1.jpg

I think you're right "Who the f'k knows?". Any unit could have gotten the nod to be the reaction force...I don't think this will ever be resolved, at least not at our level. The folks actually involved would have to step forward and spill their guts. Thanks for trying to resolve my questions.

That's a great map, with notations. It must of taken some time to put that together.

Looks like you moved around a great deal. I didn't move around that much. Been to Saigon, Bien Hoa, Dau Tieng, Suoi Da (SF A-322, during operation Junction City), Vung Tau, Song Be, Cam Ranh Bay, and Ben Cat. Suoi Da was the only place that had anything to do with combat that I was ordered to go to, other than my home bases of Bien Hoa and Lai Khe.

KEN JENSEN 07 Jan 11 15:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sidewinder CC (Post 1703816)
I think you're right "Who the f'k knows?". Any unit could have gotten the nod to be the reaction force...I don't think this will ever be resolved, at least not at our level. The folks actually involved would have to step forward and spill their guts. Thanks for trying to resolve my questions.

hmmmm, tried to find stuff for you....

Check this link out; it covers May 1967. Depending on your system it will take a couple of min to load (.PDF - Adobe Reader needed) - not much help but may be interesting for you (** you can use the search after loading to assist)

DTIC OPERATIONAL REPORT - LESSONS LEARNED 01 MAY 1967 31 JULY 1967

http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc...c=GetTRDoc.pdf

However other stuff I found indicates that MAYBE the 273rd VC Regiment may have been causing the problems during May in the Song Be area...

The Coordinate of YT0339 gives the indication....


http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...IONMAY1967.jpg


P.S. I know there is something out there, but I don't have it. Much searching of Unit Records would be necessary... GOOD LUCK
with your argument with your buddy LOL




http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...ALLGROUP-1.jpg

Ranger Jim 26 Jan 11 23:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by KEN JENSEN (Post 1701667)
ROFLOL!

[snip]

Anyway here is what I did a few years back as to my adventure....

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...LTACOMPANY.jpg

Don't believe the above will help you much, so here is some additional information.

The above map almost covers all of the 1st Inf DIV (AO). Each Brigade was responsible for specific areas. However, the Battalions within EACH Brigade, operated on what was basically called an RRF (Ready Reaction Force). This meant, any Battalion within any Brigade, may be Air Assaulted anywhere at any time, if available. Basically we (as Platoons, Companies and Battalions) were under control of whichever Brigade was assigned as the Command Control of an operation or location designated by Division. As you see we operated under control of the 1st (our Parent Brigade), but also operated under control of the 2nd and even 3rd Brigade at almost any time.

[snip]

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...ALLGROUP-1.jpg

Ken, I note that, per #15, the 1st Div was operating just west of the Song Dong Nai. Was that the dividing line between the 1st and the 9th? I know that when my Bn, the 4/39th, went from Bear Cat to Nha Be (just SE of Saigon) and my company was based at Cat Lai (right about where the Song Dong Nai turns into the Song Nha Be), we were told that our AO was south of the river, and everything north of Cat Lai belonged to the Big Red One.

Incidentally and FYI, I'm about to start back on my blog here, "Ranger Jim's Combat Stories - 4/39 Inf Hardcore - RVN 1967-68", complete with maps and more scans....

Jim

KEN JENSEN 27 Jan 11 04:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ranger Jim (Post 1726159)
Ken, I note that, per #15, the 1st Div was operating just west of the Song Dong Nai. Was that the dividing line between the 1st and the 9th? I know that when my Bn, the 4/39th, went from Bear Cat to Nha Be (just SE of Saigon) and my company was based at Cat Lai (right about where the Song Dong Nai turns into the Song Nha Be), we were told that our AO was south of the river, and everything north of Cat Lai belonged to the Big Red One.

Incidentally and FYI, I'm about to start back on my blog here, "Ranger Jim's Combat Stories - 4/39 Inf Hardcore - RVN 1967-68", complete with maps and more scans....

Jim

LOL! Sorry JIm, I never knew what OUR AO was when in country; I still don't know. At least someone told you something. All they every told me is "here boy,
take a Patrol to here and see what you can find". Never had the info as to mission or whatever (heeheehee All missions were either Road Clearing, Ambush,
or S&D). Never, I mean never, did they brief us on any Intel. Guess they figured it would scare us off from doing the mission - the F'krs.

As you can see we were a long way from our normal area around Quan Loi/An Loc (our Base Camp Since Nov 29th '67) #4 on map.

Most the info on the MAP was taken from my Battalion's Daily Journal Logs I purchased from National Archives. Some, however, did come from AAR's and Lessons Learned found on "www" sites.

heeheehee, I knew what I did but never knew where the chit I was and when - that's why I purchased the Logs!




http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...ALLGROUP-1.jpg

Sidewinder CC 08 Feb 11 16:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ranger Jim (Post 1726159)
Ken, I note that, per #15, the 1st Div was operating just west of the Song Dong Nai. Was that the dividing line between the 1st and the 9th? I know that when my Bn, the 4/39th, went from Bear Cat to Nha Be (just SE of Saigon) and my company was based at Cat Lai (right about where the Song Dong Nai turns into the Song Nha Be), we were told that our AO was south of the river, and everything north of Cat Lai belonged to the Big Red One.

Incidentally and FYI, I'm about to start back on my blog here, "Ranger Jim's Combat Stories - 4/39 Inf Hardcore - RVN 1967-68", complete with maps and more scans....

Jim

Ranger Jim/Ken,

Here's a map of the 1st ID TAOR in 1969. It doesn't specifically give boundries of the TAOR but it it shows the general area, including location of the 1st CAV, 11th CAV, and 25th ID.

I like it because it shows the names given to features of signifigance.

http://i519.photobucket.com/albums/u...iv_TAOR_v1.jpg

Sidewinder

Boonierat 08 Feb 11 16:44

Great map Ken, love the testicles on the Song Be lol :)

Dan M 08 Feb 11 21:35

Phenomenal map Ken. Looking at the Song Be River and the location of Bien Hoa, where would War Zone D have been located. Is it on your map or would it have been farther to the east?

Also, hasn't it been reported elsewhere on this forum that the Headquarters of the 1st Division was at Di An? Or am I getting the tactical and logistical headquarters confused?

Forgive the trite questions but with so much information available on here I sometimes find it hard to keep everything straight in my mind.

Cheers,
Dan.

KEN JENSEN 09 Feb 11 00:01

Yeah! Great Post Sidewinder.

Only thing missing is Bu Dop (far north) and Song Be City also North East
of Quan Loi (next to II Field Force border line).




http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...ALLGROUP-1.jpg

Boonierat 09 Feb 11 03:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan M (Post 1740546)
Phenomenal map Ken. Looking at the Song Be River and the location of Bien Hoa, where would War Zone D have been located. Is it on your map or would it have been farther to the east?

War Zone D is east of Phuoc Vinh:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ember_1965.jpg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan M (Post 1740546)
Also, hasn't it been reported elsewhere on this forum that the Headquarters of the 1st Division was at Di An? Or am I getting the tactical and logistical headquarters confused?

Yes, it was at Di An before relocating to Lai Khe sometimes in 1967 (can't remember exactly when, check your Stanton ;) )


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