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-   -   Harpoon ANW and the HUD-4 Database (http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=128938)

Mgellis 27 Oct 12 14:46

Harpoon ANW and the HUD-4 Database
 
Greetings,

I've been using the HUD-4 to create scenarios for a while now. I recently learned about Armchair General, so I've joined, and I'm saying hello, and I'll be posting announcements about new scenarios here. I also hope this will be the beginning of some good discussions about scenario design, drawing on history to create new scenarios, etc.

I should point out I am completely uninterested in arguing about who has the "best" database. I don't care. I happen to like the HUD-4 database, I use it to write scenarios, and I hope other people will try it and like it, too. If there is something you think needs to be fixed, please let Gunny know (there's a section on the harpgamer forums for this). If you happen to like some other database better, that's fine.

The most recent versions of the HUD 4 (both the released v 1.0 and v1.1 b10, the latest beta with the newest platforms, fixes, etc.) and a bunch of scenarios I and others have written are available at...

[I'm getting a message saying I have to post five times before I can post links, so I will post the actual links soon. For the time being, just go to google and type "Harpgamer" and you'll get there. :) In fact, when I tested this, Google was even showing a sub-link to the downloads page.]

...I hope you will try them out. My scenarios are written using the beta, but I have had very little trouble with crashes, database errors, etc. (I accidentally posted a couple with a flawed version of the beta some months ago, but I have deleted those and the new versions at harpgamer should be stable.)

More later...

Mark

Mgellis 27 Oct 12 14:59

In order to get to my five posts, I will ask some Harpoon-related questions that I hope will get some good conversations started.

First, a "history" question...

The HUD-4 covers 1980-2015. And there are a lot of platforms that were really in their prime in the 1960s and 1970s, so there is a lot of room for all kinds of historical scenarios.

What would you like to see for Harpoon? What moments in history would make great scenarios (either ones that have already been done but there is room for more or events that maybe have just gotten overlooked somehow)?

Mgellis 27 Oct 12 15:03

Another conversation starter (I hope)...

I always hear about real life war games using scenarios. I imagine these would make great raw material for Harpoon scenarios. Are the documents for these actual scenarios, the ones used for war games, available for public viewing? If so, where does one find them?

flash 27 Oct 12 15:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mgellis (Post 2379127)
Another conversation starter (I hope)...

I always hear about real life war games using scenarios. I imagine these would make great raw material for Harpoon scenarios. Are the documents for these actual scenarios, the ones used for war games, available for public viewing? If so, where does one find them?

Perhaps a Cuban missile based scenario, conventional war and limited?

Mgellis 27 Oct 12 15:13

Another conversation starter (I hope)...

One thing I really like about ANW/HUD-4 is that it covers so many smaller nations (not all, yet, but it's getting there).

If you were going to have a small war--a couple of ships and maybe a half-dozen aircraft on each side--who would the players be?

Sri Lanka vs. Bangladesh?

Nigeria vs. Cameroon?

Ecuador vs. Mexico?

Thoughts? Ideas?

Mgellis 27 Oct 12 15:32

Another question...

What's your take on "World War III without nuclear weapons" scenarios? Most of what I've read on the subject suggest that both sides would have used massive strikes almost immediately.

Of course, this does not sound like it would be good for scenario design (or anything else, actually). The best I can come up with is something like "Fortress Australia" and "Fortress Brazil"--after the northern hemisphere has destroyed itself, the survivors (ships and subs) from NATO regroup around Australia and/or Latin America to defend them from the remnants of the Soviet fleet, who seek to seize control of some territory and establish a new Soviet Union. (And who figure they can do this by blackmailing people since they do have some nuclear weapons.) I'm not sure how plausible this is, though.

What about non-nuclear World War III scenarios, though? Could the Cold War have gotten hot without going atomic? How might this have happened?

The only thing I can think of is something where a naval war breaks out for some reason (NATO blockades Russia over the Afghanistan invasion?) but no one is trying to actually invade Soviet or European territory, so there is no need to actually launch the bombers and ICBMs. But how plausible is this?

Thoughts? Ideas?

Mgellis 27 Oct 12 15:33

Okay, here, finally, are the links for Harpgamer...

http://harpgamer.com/harpforum/index.php
http://harpgamer.com/harpforum/index...harpoon-23anw/

Mgellis 27 Oct 12 16:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by flash (Post 2379139)
Perhaps a Cuban missile based scenario, conventional war and limited?

Cuba definitely has a lot of possibilities...

A follow-up invasion of Cuba in the 1980s (maybe after using Grenada as a "test bed") under Reagan or Bush? Encouraged by the fact that Russia did not invade Poland in 1981 and is busy in Afghanistan. But this time, America is using enough force to take Cuba, a couple of carrier groups, etc. at least...

A war between Cuba and some other Caribbean nation like Mexico?

A battle between Cuba and some European nation, sparked by an incident between Cuba and some Caribbean nation like Jamaica or Curacao with strong ties to Europe?

Other ideas?

flash 27 Oct 12 18:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mgellis (Post 2379186)
Cuba definitely has a lot of possibilities...

A follow-up invasion of Cuba in the 1980s (maybe after using Grenada as a "test bed") under Reagan or Bush? Encouraged by the fact that Russia did not invade Poland in 1981 and is busy in Afghanistan. But this time, America is using enough force to take Cuba, a couple of carrier groups, etc. at least...

A war between Cuba and some other Caribbean nation like Mexico?

A battle between Cuba and some European nation, sparked by an incident between Cuba and some Caribbean nation like Jamaica or Curacao with strong ties to Europe?

Other ideas?

Hi Mgellis.
At this point I have to admit I don't have a copy of Harpoon and don't really know what HUD-1 is.
I'm aware of the game and have Fleet command myself ,always fancies Harpoon but am unsure about obtaining one for Win-7.

Herman Hum 27 Oct 12 21:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mgellis (Post 2379116)
Greetings,

I've been using the HUD-4 to create scenarios for a while now. I recently learned about Armchair General, so I've joined, and I'm saying hello, and I'll be posting announcements about new scenarios here. I also hope this will be the beginning of some good discussions about scenario design, drawing on history to create new scenarios, etc.

I should point out I am completely uninterested in arguing about who has the "best" database. I don't care. I happen to like the HUD-4 database, I use it to write scenarios, and I hope other people will try it and like it, too. If there is something you think needs to be fixed, please let Gunny know (there's a section on the harpgamer forums for this). If you happen to like some other database better, that's fine.

The most recent versions of the HUD 4 (both the released v 1.0 and v1.1 b10, the latest beta with the newest platforms, fixes, etc.) and a bunch of scenarios I and others have written are available at...

[I'm getting a message saying I have to post five times before I can post links, so I will post the actual links soon. For the time being, just go to google and type "Harpgamer" and you'll get there. :) In fact, when I tested this, Google was even showing a sub-link to the downloads page.]

...I hope you will try them out. My scenarios are written using the beta, but I have had very little trouble with crashes, database errors, etc. (I accidentally posted a couple with a flawed version of the beta some months ago, but I have deleted those and the new versions at harpgamer should be stable.)

More later...

Mark

Tried this scenario and ran into the same weapons-will-not-fire problems as found in:

Operation Blue DogHouse

Anyone running this scenario and finding that some of their weapons will not release, do not despair. You are not doing anything wrongly; it's a database error over which no player has any control.

Herman Hum 27 Oct 12 21:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by flash (Post 2379139)
Perhaps a Cuban missile based scenario, conventional war and limited?

A Cuban Missile Crisis scenario is already available under the PlayersDB Library of scenarios.

Harpoon3.6.3 users can get the:
Complete PlayersDB Harpoon 3.6.3 Library

Herman Hum 27 Oct 12 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by flash (Post 2379260)
Hi Mgellis.
At this point I have to admit I don't have a copy of Harpoon and don't really know what HUD-1 is.
I'm aware of the game and have Fleet command myself ,always fancies Harpoon but am unsure about obtaining one for Win-7.

You can purchase the Harpoon Ultimate bundle of games from Matrix:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tt.asp?forumid=873

demos of Harpoon Classic and Harpoon 3 are available. If you are unclear as to the distinction between the game versions, see:

Harpoon Classic and Harpoon3 Comparison
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list...9&feature=plcp

Mgellis 30 Oct 12 23:32

A new HUD-4 scenario is available!

http://harpgamer.com/harpforum/index...-denmark-1991/

Task Force Romeo has completed an intelligence gathering mission in the Baltic and is now on its way back to Copenhagen. However, with the Soviet Union on the verge of collapse, tensions between it and the West are rising, and the task force needs to be careful not to spark an international incident on its homeward voyage.

Herman Hum 31 Oct 12 07:31

This latest scenario suffers from the same type of problem found in every single HUD4 scenario: the predominant game problem encountered with the HUD4 is the fact that many, Many, MANY weapons fail to fire.

Quote:

The database error lies with the RUR-5A Mod 4 (Mk46m5) missiles. It is easily replicated by ordering the destroyer found in this scenario (Rommel) to fire on any submarine. The database says that the weapons are rated for submarines, but they will not fire at the target at any combination of range or speed that I could find. If you find an instance whereby this weapon fires, I would be happy to test your findings. Just to be clear, the database version is HUD 4 V 1.1 beta 10 and the files are dated 24/03/2012 11:54:08a.m. The scenario is dated 24/10/2012 17:37h
http://community.combatsim.com/topic...0#entry5147556

Mgellis 31 Oct 12 14:06

Because of Mr. Hum's rude behavior on CombatSim, I am no longer going to respond to his posts.

However, based on certain factors, such as the fact that one should not be firing many, many weapons my most recently posted scenario anyway (in fact, in theory, one could get by without firing a shot), I am not sure he has really looked at it. Suffice that because of this and various other incidents, I no longer trust him to be honest or truthful.

I should point out that I have tried very hard over the last few years to treat Mr. Hum fairly despite the things of which he has been accused (theft of intellectual property in his creation of the Players Database for Harpoon, etc.) I do not know all the details, and I try to avoid jumping to conclusions.

Suffice that from now on I will focus on my original goal, which is simply to let people know when new HUD-4 scenarios are available, discuss ideas for scenarios, etc.

My experience with the HUD-4 has been very positive. My experience with the database editor, Gunny, has also been very positive. I hope people will try the HUD-4. I hope they will enjoy the scenarios that I and others have written for it. I hope they will offer feedback on these scenarios. I hope that, if they do discover errors, bugs, etc., they will post a report on harpgamer so the database editor can make improvements. I hope that all this leads to the Harpoon community enjoying more and better scenarios as the years go on.


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