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-   -   Fulda Gap--14 ACAV, 58th Engineers (http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133933)

JAGDPANTHER88 17 Mar 13 12:04

Fulda Gap--14 ACAV, 58th Engineers
 
I was stationed in Fulda, Germany from 1963-66 as an armor crewman in
M-48A2 and the ('new'!) M-60A1.
We had a number of NCOs who were WWII vets, so I heard all about 'Shermans vs Germans'.

I was instrumental in stopping THE RED MENACE ( and WWIII). Thank you, thank you very much... :stop:
Cold War Hero! :rolleyes:

("Hey, we ain't afraid of your T-62s...") :whist:

Freightshaker 17 Mar 13 12:43

I was in Fulda from 92'-94'.

Blackhorse!!

JAGDPANTHER88 19 Mar 13 18:34

Some pics of The New Fulda
 
Hey, I was in the 14th ACAV before they got "rebadged" as the 11th Black Horses (which sounds better than the "Suey-Mooies"!). Anyway, it's all gone now. Very little evidence of our ever having been there. Ever since the Reunification most of the locals (esp those from Dubya's "New Europe") don't want to talk about "The Bad Times", or even acknowledge them--they just want to get on with their new lives amd forget The Cold War.
My wife and I walked from our downtown hotel up to the Kaserne, as I had done many times in years past (I would've probably have been a lot drunker then!).
Here are a few pics as it looked in 2008:

Our hotel in the Altstadt. And the car on the left is the one we rented for two weeks and drove thru four countries. I remember that cellar as having an interesting pub. Now it's all closed up. Bahnhofstrasse looks completely different too.

http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/z...Oct2008448.jpg

http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/z...Oct2008426.jpg

Regimental HQ, 14 ACAV (Now civilian offices)
http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/z...Oct2008431.jpg

Here' the only evidence of our having been at the "Downs Barracks" Kaserne:
http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/z...Oct2008435.jpg

...and here's the epitaph on our tombstone:
http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/z...Oct2008433.jpg

The old EM Club. Or was this the movies?
http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/z...Oct2008436.jpg

The old Main Gate
http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/z...Oct2008438.jpg

Freightshaker 20 Mar 13 02:55

That was the theater when I was there. I was a helicopter refueler up on the airfield. Last time I saw it, it was overgrown with weeds.

11ACR was the best unit I was in during my 10 years.

Parasocko 22 Mar 13 20:45

I was in the 564th MP company---Wildflecken, bad hersfeld and Fulda, 86-89

Freightshaker 23 Mar 13 02:49

I don't miss 'Wildchicken' at all. Nothing like snow in July...

JAGDPANTHER88 23 Mar 13 03:57

One Wild snowstorm...
 
Yeah, Graf in some HOT summers and Wild-flickin' in some COLD winters!
Our squadron got caught in a blizzard just as we were departing WF.
Tanks were sliding backwards down the slope even when the engines were shut down and the tracks were not running. Pretty scary having 60 tons of steel inching toward you out of control and nobody aboard.
We hadn't moved fifty paces before another tank slid into us, smashing our (cast aluminum!) right front idler wheel hub to smitherines. We made it to Fulda by regreasing the bearing every few miles. Then ordnance didn't have another hub cover on hand, so we were "hors de combat" without a shot being fired at us. It left us wondering what would happen to those hub caps if they got hit by AK-47 bullets...
("Americanski tank? Da. You shoot him in wheels, make stop.")

.

GreenTiger 23 Mar 13 08:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAGDPANTHER88 (Post 2496963)
Hey, I was in the 14th ACAV before they got "rebadged" as the 11th Black Horses (which sounds better than the "Suey-Mooies"!). Anyway, it's all gone now. Very little evidence of our ever having been there. Ever since the Reunification most of the locals (esp those from Dubya's "New Europe") don't want to talk about "The Bad Times", or even acknowledge them--they just want to get on with their new lives amd forget The Cold War.

Not altogether surprising when the current orthodoxy as laid down by our political masters in Brussels is that we owe fifty years without war in Europe to the wonderful Nobel prize-winning European Union.

However, some of us remember and are extremely thankful to all those who for many years "held the line" and allowed us to prosper and live our lives in peace.

Thank you, gentlemen.

JAGDPANTHER88 23 Mar 13 16:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreenTiger (Post 2500459)
Not altogether surprising when the current orthodoxy as laid down by our political masters in Brussels is that we owe fifty years without war in Europe to the wonderful Nobel prize-winning European Union.

"Ja, thank the EU..."
:rolleyes:

However, some of us remember and are extremely thankful to all those who for many years "held the line" and allowed us to prosper and live our lives in peace.
Thank you, gentlemen.

Thanks for remembering. :salute:

Our strategy was to simply "contain" the Soviet Union long enough for it to self-destruct. Well, that seemed to work, so where to from here? :hmmm:
Actually, having survived the ravages of WWII, I don't think many Soviets were too excited about starting another total war any more than we were. Everybody over there had had enough destruction for one century. It was mostly the US leaders who kept going on about 'Red Menaces' and 'domino theories'.
The next time a leader of any nation begins talking about war, even "defensively" we should turn off the propaganda machines and line them all up against the wall. War is always good for the politicians and their contractor buddies, but it's never been good for the soldiers who have to fight it or the civilians who have to endure it.
We should make that clear to the people. That and to not trust ambitious leaders because they lie to us to advance their own interests.
Is that sedition? Is it subversive? Of course it is! Our leaders do not want this to become common knowledge.

An elected World Court with enough clout to enforce its findings: ("Silence in the courtroom, the monkey wants to speak. The next politician who speaks about going to war is a dead monkey.")

For starters, just "turning off the propaganda machines" would help a lot!
(:o rant ends) :toast:

Half Pint John 23 Mar 13 18:29

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...giment_SSI.jpg

F the Black Horse:toast:. 2nd all the way.('-)

Freightshaker 27 Mar 13 22:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Half Pint John (Post 2500871)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...giment_SSI.jpg

F the Black Horse:toast:. 2nd all the way.('-)

Nah, you guys went home early and missed the party. ;)
http://i49.tinypic.com/6psqrp.jpg

copenhagen 28 Mar 13 07:25

For those of you who were staring down the barrel that was the Fulda Gap. Was there a plan or was it just we're just a speedbump for Soviet tanks?

JAGDPANTHER88 28 Mar 13 14:04

First we do Plan A, then we do Plan B.
 
"The Plan" was for us to slow them down (not stop them) until our reserves, aka the Third Armored Division, aka "The Third Herd", could be called in from Gelnhausen to plug the gap.

If the Soviets didn't agree to slow down for us, "Plan B" was to nuke them. Seriously. This used to be classified information, but now it's available to anyone who cares to look for it.
I was attached to the 58th Combat Engineer Company who, in 1965, began getting our "ADM" (Atomic Demolitions Mines). I was TDY to the ADM platoon to help with the administrative part of the program. They were planning to plant these tactical nuclear explosives in the path of the Reds at places like road junctions, bridges, and other places, the existence of which would aid the enemy in getting across the Rhine and maybe as far as the Channel.
I was having trouble with this 'Plan' because I had a very nice girlfriend who lived close to one of our ground zeros and I really wasn't keen on having her and her family blown sky high on a mushroom cloud (along with more than a few other civilians!). It was supposed to be all very hush-hush--we had to have 'Secret' security clearances to even know about Plan B.
That was the best plan they could come up with. Really? That's when I decided to not "take six" and accept the promotion they were dangling in front of me. I figured it's never a good idea to premeditate murdering masses of Allied civilians and I'd heard about international tribunals and war crimes. I really doubt that the Soviets would've used nukes in western Europe unless we did it first.
I wanted no part in that.

copenhagen 29 Mar 13 19:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAGDPANTHER88 (Post 2505184)
"The Plan" was for us to slow them down (not stop them) until our reserves, aka the Third Armored Division, aka "The Third Herd", could be called in from Gelnhausen to plug the gap.

If the Soviets didn't agree to slow down for us, "Plan B" was to nuke them. Seriously. This used to be classified information, but now it's available to anyone who cares to look for it.
I was attached to the 58th Combat Engineer Company who, in 1965, began getting our "ADM" (Atomic Demolitions Mines). I was TDY to the ADM platoon to help with the administrative part of the program. They were planning to plant these tactical nuclear explosives in the path of the Reds at places like road junctions, bridges, and other places, the existence of which would aid the enemy in getting across the Rhine and maybe as far as the Channel.
I was having trouble with this 'Plan' because I had a very nice girlfriend who lived close to one of our ground zeros and I really wasn't keen on having her and her family blown sky high on a mushroom cloud (along with more than a few other civilians!). It was supposed to be all very hush-hush--we had to have 'Secret' security clearances to even know about Plan B.
That was the best plan they could come up with. Really? That's when I decided to not "take six" and accept the promotion they were dangling in front of me. I figured it's never a good idea to premeditate murdering masses of Allied civilians and I'd heard about international tribunals and war crimes. I really doubt that the Soviets would've used nukes in western Europe unless we did it first.
I wanted no part in that.

Thanks for the answer mate...The West Germans must have known about Plan B surely? Did they feel blowing up their own country was preferable to the Russians getting into it? When was this by the way? The 60's?

JAGDPANTHER88 30 Mar 13 01:32

"Who knew?"
 
IDK how much the West German leadership knew of our "ADMs". We were partners in NATO and all that, but it seems pretty weird that they would agree with the plan.
Maybe it was all a bluff to deter the Soviet invasion. I don't think the Soviets would use nukes on us first because they could've rolled over us fairly easily using conventional means.
The question they didn't know the answer to was whether we would actually use our nukes to stop them. If the answer was 'no', then they've got hegemony over the rest of Europe, but if the answer was 'yes', where does that leave them? Do they cut and run, or do they go tit for tat, and if they retaliate in kind, where would it end? That was NATO's big gamble--that the Soviets didn't really want a WWIII so soon after the losses they suffered in WWII. I took it as a given that we were totally prepared to go nuclear to prevent an invasion.
Maybe it was the frustration the USSR was feeling in Europe during the early '60s that resulted in their attempt to put nuclear missiles in Cuba. The superpowers were playing a dangerous chess match.
My experiences with our tactical nukes occurred in 1965. After that, the world's attention focused on Vietnam until that was finally settled. Things heated up again in Germany during the Reagan administration and we were back to having another round of chest thumping and sabre rattling, but by then I was long gone and well settled into the middle class.
By1990 the Iron Curtain crisis had subsided and it was time to look at nation states in the Mid-East that were purported to have..."WMD" that they would use "against their own people". :rolleyes:
.


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