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-   -   The Death of Venezuela (http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=175790)

The Exorcist 08 Feb 17 22:49

The Death of Venezuela
 
Another example of the Horrors of Socialism, and the Media still won't report on it.


A nice long vid conversation with a fellow down there, for when you have the time.
(over an hour)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YWzNoyoBSk&t=493s


jonny87kz 08 Feb 17 23:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Exorcist (Post 3325627)
Another example of the Horrors of Socialism, and the Media still won't report on it.


A nice long vid conversation with a fellow down there, for when you have the time.
(over an hour)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YWzNoyoBSk&t=493s


But they didn't do it right.... If we did it here, we would do it right and it would be utopia....

T. A. Gardner 11 Feb 17 03:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonny87kz (Post 3325643)
But they didn't do it right.... If we did it here, we would do it right and it would be utopia....

The Left didn't get it right in...

Cuba
Cambodia
Zimbabwe
Poland
Czechoslovakia
Romania
The USSR
China
Nicaragua
Hungary
Yugoslavia

Well, you get the idea... But, this time, for sure, they'll get it right! :rolleyes:

The Exorcist 12 Feb 17 02:55

And don't forget-
Angola
Mozambique
South Yemen
Ethiopia
Albania

Oh, but they still point to Sweden, even while saying that Socialism isn't communism....

Reimnitz 12 Feb 17 03:12

Seems to work in the 3 kingdoms of Denmark, Sweden and Norway.

sebfrench76 12 Feb 17 05:12

You're wrong.
It doesn't work there .
Women are raped by dozens of millions every day , by the hundreds of millions of migrants legally entered there.
And the sunlight is hardly perceptible, because of the thousands of mosques towers .
Haven't you read that ?

T. A. Gardner 12 Feb 17 16:10

Yep, Sweden is pretty FU'd these days...




The Exorcist 12 Feb 17 22:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reimnitz (Post 3327305)
Seems to work in the 3 kingdoms of Denmark, Sweden and Norway.

Se? I knew someone would bring that up, as has happened in every single discussion on the merits of Communism that I have seen for the last 15 years.
But is it true?

No, it is not.

They haven't been very Socialist for very long.
In Argentina, the standard of living went WAY up with Capitalism, and went flatline with Socialism.... flat, or in decline.

Between 1870 and 1950, Sweden had a freer economy than the US in many ways and increased GPD faster than anyone in the world.
AFTER 1950, the hiring of Govt workers exploded, GDP per person has decline... however they still have a lower Corporate Tax rate than the US, co they still pull some Capital in.
As far as Regulation, sound money and freedom to trade they are about the same as the US is.
It has not fought any wars since 1814, so no wasted life & wealth in all that time making Wars.

The US has a higher standard of living, but the main thing is -
In what way are they so very Socialist?

THIS is a quick one from 3 years ago-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNtyV0CXfzU




This is more recent

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0hnA341AWE



EU Leftists are not allowed to know any of this!
So, watch at your own peril, the Stassi might come a'knocking if you inform yourself.

VinceW 12 Feb 17 23:26

Yep the only way they would be truly socialists is if their economies weren't free market that they are and thanks to Conservative governments being elected half the time they remain so.
Conservative politicians here and there and everywhere really need to get involved with the immigration process before the problems with Muslims gets out of control than it already is now.

joea 14 Feb 17 05:29

Sigh....one problem with these discussions is that some societies - for various reasons not always internal to those societies - simply are dysfunctional under any system. Do any of you really think capitalism works that well in say Egypt or Venezuela before Chavez??

T. A. Gardner 14 Feb 17 16:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by joea (Post 3328050)
Sigh....one problem with these discussions is that some societies - for various reasons not always internal to those societies - simply are dysfunctional under any system. Do any of you really think capitalism works that well in say Egypt or Venezuela before Chavez??

No because in good part you also need a set of social values in place to make it work. That is a major reason why all of Central and South America have long been a failure compared to their Northern neighbors. They had the misfortune to be saddled with Spanish / Iberian culture.
Spain and Portugal are pretty much basket cases in Europe. They share a similar cultural foundation to other places with a long Spanish or Portuguese cultural presence. Look at the PI. It took a hit for having long been occupied by Spain.

Karri 19 Feb 17 15:22

...Spain and Portugal were once the most powerful states of Europe so your theory doesn't quite hold water.

The Exorcist 20 Feb 17 16:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karri (Post 3330747)
...Spain and Portugal were once the most powerful states of Europe so your theory doesn't quite hold water.

Back when they were, was something different?

Was their culture more influenced by .... oh, I dunno, a Religion of some sort?

Did they have fewer barriers to Free Trade?

Were they more energetic and willing to travel the world to make a fortune?

Did they have a Colonial Empire full of slaves under their thumbs?

Hmmm...

T. A. Gardner 21 Feb 17 01:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karri (Post 3330747)
...Spain and Portugal were once the most powerful states of Europe so your theory doesn't quite hold water.

They were for the time because they were militaristic and expansionist. They had only recently defeated the Moors and Islamic influence on their countries and were looking to expand.

When they did they took the values they had with them. Those who weren't Spanish (or Portuguese) were to be subjugated. It was fine with them and the Catholic Church if they did so, so long as the Church got to come along for the ride and set up missions and convert the locals... By force if necessary.

The result was colonies that were merely there for exploiting their resources and stripping them of any and all wealth. The idea of nobility and a rigidly class structured society went along with them too.

After centuries of taking gross advantage of the locals, importing slaves when the locals ran out, and expropriating all the wealth back to the mother country, the Spanish and Portuguese colonies were left with nothing for an economy, a mindset that made class warfare and noble obliges perfectly acceptable, and the idea that exploitation of the masses was good.

Surrey 21 Feb 17 04:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by sebfrench76 (Post 3327323)
You're wrong.
It doesn't work there .
Women are raped by dozens of millions every day , by the hundreds of millions of migrants legally entered there.
And the sunlight is hardly perceptible, because of the thousands of mosques towers .
Haven't you read that ?

I seem to remember some of your posts a while ago indicating that Hollande's France was not quite the workers' paradise it was made out to be?


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