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-   -   So Custer? Great General, or Greatest General . ? (http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=145964)

FluffyBunnyFeet 17 Mar 14 15:09

So Custer? Great General, or Greatest General . ?
 
Discuss. You have to pick one :)

Arnold J Rimmer 17 Mar 14 15:10

A bungling egoistical moron who got himself and half a regiment killed. Should have been tossed out on his ear after being found guilty of dereliction at his earlier court martial. His main skills were self-promotion and advanced butt-kissing.

the ace 17 Mar 14 15:11

Complete and utter **** - next question.

III Corps 17 Mar 14 15:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by FluffyBunnyFeet (Post 2773395)
...You have to pick one...

You allow only Great and Greatest. Neither is applicable.
:thumup:

Wooden Wonder 17 Mar 14 15:55

Custer was no battlefield master tactician. He made the same sort of blunders at Little Big Horn, as Chelmsford made about 4 or 5 days later at Isandlwana.

Things like underestimating the opposition, and splitting up his forces in enemy territory without sufficient fore-knowledge of the oppositions' deployment and intentions.

OpanaPointer 17 Mar 14 17:24

He should have taken the Gatlings.

Pruitt 17 Mar 14 18:30

I think "Moron" applies in the case Custer.

Pruitt

KRJ 17 Mar 14 19:00

Who? :rolleyes:

Half Pint John 17 Mar 14 19:12

Incompetent LTC, General his ask.

KRJ 17 Mar 14 19:12

Needed supervision.

In a WWII Armored division Custer very well might have have given a stellar performance commanding a battalion or perhaps even a combat command under a talented armored division commander like John Wood. But Custer would have been an utter failure commanding a division or corps.

Custer would have likely finished WWII a lieutenant colonel too.

To think that he could have done Patton's job.....:\o/:

DARKPLACE 17 Mar 14 19:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by FluffyBunnyFeet (Post 2773395)
Discuss. You have to pick one :)

A perfect example of the Peter Principle.

That isnt good by theway.

semperpietas 17 Mar 14 20:03

http://images.sodahead.com/polls/003...103_xlarge.gif

FluffyBunnyFeet 17 Mar 14 21:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arnold J Rimmer (Post 2773397)
A bungling egoistical moron who got himself and half a regiment killed. Should have been tossed out on his ear after being found guilty of dereliction at his earlier court martial. His main skills were self-promotion and advanced butt-kissing.

Completely Wrong as usual.

Egotisical yes, self promoting yes, BUTT KISSING? HELL NO! If he was a butt kisser he would have not outed the corruption in the Fort Post Trading Scandal, and other Grant scandals of corruption and greed and immorality, which were epic and all butt unprecedented in US history to that point and maybe still today. Hense why he had so many enemies and why he was court-marshaled.

He was not court-marshaled for dereliction, he was court marshaled to coverup the misappropriation and theft of government supplies by Military logistics officers, and private contractors. Custers freshly took command of the most forward base Fort Wallace, during the end of the Hancock expedition debacle, where nothing was achieved except the stir the Indians up into random bands of Warring Parties, carrying out indiscriminate robbery, kidnapping, rape, murder, and torture upon white trespassers encouraged by private business back east, and Johnson and Grants corrupt allowance.

He arrived to find that the supply wagon train that had been sent with the command contained almost non of the manifested supplies, and the rations were left over spoiled from the war. Orders from Fort Laramie where no message carriers were to be sent into the territory do to the amount of Indians War Parties, all independent commands were to wait until contacted by the higher command with orders. . Custer knew the Natives would not attack his fortified camp, and the real danger was the cholera and disentary that was ravaging the fort. starvation disentary from the spoiled food, so he decided to cut out 75 of the best horses, as most were worn out from the expedition, and personally lead the much more dangerous mission of sneaking a skeleton defended wagon train that would attract a lot of Native attention back to Fort Harker to resupply and escort back to Fort Wallace. Which he did amazingly un seen and attack by hostiles, by hiding in the low rallies during the day, and traveling by night, which is why when they arrived at Fort Lincoln, it was Knight and the Post command was in for the night, so their was no one to report to. He sent a subordinate to report his arrival with the post clerk, and he would report in the morning. Of course word got back that Custers was back for the supplies, that was never sent, and the thieves in the Brass at Fort Harker which was a Supply Base for the entire Western campaign immediately conspired to have him arrested to cover for what they had been doing.

Custers actions during the Civil War were amazing. By taking the initiative in several engagements he helped completely turn the tide of several battles, as well as significantly shorten and bring about the conclusion of the war saving thousands of lives on both sides. At the Battle of Travilion station He saved the entire Western flank of the army under Sheridan that was caught off guard and was being rolled up by Jubal Early. While the rest of the Army was in complete disorderly retreat, Custer took the initiative to ride around the confederate flank and attack the undefended wagon train, of 1500 horses, and the vast supply ammunition and food, and medical supply, and other supplies that the Confederates could not afford to lose. Both Lee and Early had to completely stop in their tracks, and turn their Calvary and reserves around pursue, Which allowed the Union army to reform and advance depriving Lee of the vital rail Road Junction. He was almost cut off and and killed but saved at the last minute, but he saved thousand of Union Lives from being over run, and the ones that would have to die to take back the ground they lost.

He commanded Brilliantly and cautiously in several the battles of third Winchester, and Ceder Creek , and the Appomattox campaign which was a complete cluster muck by Grant, and took his own initiative to detach from the army and cut off Lees inevitable escape do to Grants incompetence, And maybe the main reason He resented Custer, because Custer a 20 year old punk bailed him out from completely duped by Lee again.

FluffyBunnyFeet 17 Mar 14 21:06

And at the LBH, He did everything prudent and based on logic and reason, his choice was either wait till the 27th when terrys men finally arrived a day late, while his horses died of dehydration and his men Alkaline poisoning from Tullochs creek, and let any one of the thousands of randomly wandering Indians and White Fur traders wondering the territory happen across him and get word back to the village so they could all break camp, and Grant as he was so hoping put the blame on him, for defying and testifying Grants corrupt cabinet and military brass, wealthy friends and very own family that he was allowing to runoff with the national treasury, that in fact lead to the entire 1976 Sioux to begin with!

Then tactically I Reno had just charged through the sleeping unsuspecting village as he was ordered, and scattered and killed the pony heard in the rear nullifying any chase by the village, and drawing the warriors to the rear while Custer and Benteen russled up the women and children. Even by Reno's complete idiotic halt, Custer with the rare gift of a combat leader adapted and prepared a hammer and anvil relief of Reno, which would have been immediate had his other Battalion commander not derilict his obligation, by depriving Custer of 1/4 of his command, and not slowing his own action by not reporting the outcome of his scout, and his position, not following the next order to come quick, with the extra ammunition.

Then when he arrived according to LT. Godfrey at Reno Hill at 2:30PM, To which they heard the firing to the north, about 15 to 20 minutes later, sat there in the open sun, with no Indian in site, for over an hour, while they heard their 5 companies being murdered. They didn't do anything, but wait for Custer to save them, they didn't take the initiative and attack the now undefended Village, they didn't even have the sense to withdraw, or relocate back down into the shade, and defense and access to water of the timber Reno cowardly retreated from. They just waited for Custer to relive them! Even though they had 2/3 of the command with the entire pack train.

At 3:10 PM Cpt.Wier and Lt. Godfrey and others heard the double volly from the north, which is an alert to his location and that he was engauged and to come per doctrine to the sound of the fire. Wier then asked Reno to go to the sound of the firing, to which Reno left his command for a half hour to look for Lt. Hodgkins body, 3:40. Wier again asks to go to the sound of the firing, to which Reno soiling himself made the excuse they had to many wounded and the pack train was not up yet, and their were thousands of Indians outthere, Which was true the pack train had long since arrived, troops were fully armed and they had 29 wounded out of 427 men that could be moved, and the only Indians in sight by that time were the women and Children leaving the village and a few Warriors collecting scalps from the dead Reno left by the River. Benteen said it was up to Reno and some comment about Major Elliot from the Washita Battle 8 years ago, admitting his animosity and dereliction of duty to aid his fellow soldiers in their time of need to settle personal grudge.

Wier left on his own arriving at Wier point somewhere around 4:10-4:20PM to which the rest of the companies started to follow, he sent word that he spotted Custer and he was in a fight and needed to be relieved. Reno and Benteen out of peer pressure followed slowly about 35 minutes later 5:15-5:20 PM by that time they could only see through the dust probably they mopping up of the Calhoon Hill position and watching the retreat of the Keogh Sector Collpas towards Custer Hill. They kept hearin trumpet call of distress, in reponse to the siginals from the guidon flag on wier point, the fight was still going on. a few Indians as described by Godfrey and others started to head back their way after an hour of lolly gauging in plain sight. But the firing was still rampant in Custer Hill. Again reno fled so fast back to his hill he never ordered a rear guard, his juiniors had to on their own or he would have gotten even more people killed. The firing could still be heard from the Custer fight until around 5:20-5:30 when gradually more Indians started to make their way back towards Reno, as the Custer fight was under control, but that meant the Custer fight was still going on. corralating the counts from Custers Scout Curley, Custers officers, and the Indian account's one draws the estimate of the last fighting on Custer hill lasted until 6:10-620pm. So their was about 3 hours Reno and Benteen could have played a pivitol role in the fight, or at least captured the undefended women and children as all the Warriors were enguged with Custer. You can not defend thier actions, and Custers brilliance.

Pruitt 17 Mar 14 21:16

FBF,

I won't argue with a true believer....If you think this is what happened, go ahead and think so.

Pruitt


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