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-   -   IDF forces to withdraw from Gaza, apparently. (http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150286)

Golani 02 Aug 14 12:52

IDF forces to withdraw from Gaza, apparently.
 
IDF forces had issued the residents of northern Gaza an official announcement that they may return to their homes as the fighting there is over and started withdrawing forces.

It is currently unclear what the situation is in the southern portion of the strip, as Israel still has an MIA officer which had resulted in an increase of operations including taking over portions of the "Philadelphi route" (i.e the Gaza-Egypt border route, also the main location of smuggling tunnels).

PM Netanyahu will issue an official statement on 21:00 local time.

PhilipLaos 02 Aug 14 14:11

Information point.

Is there a fence, or something similar, along the eastern, southern and northern border of Gaza?

If so, what does it look like?


Philip

Golani 02 Aug 14 14:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilipLaos (Post 2863404)
Information point.

Is there a fence, or something similar, along the eastern, southern and northern border of Gaza?

If so, what does it look like?


Philip

There's an indicative fence all through the Gaza-Israel border, with a wall on a small portion ("the knee", where the line switches from northwest-southeast to northeast-southwest).

Phebe 02 Aug 14 14:17

I wonder whether the IDF is satisfied they've found and destroyed all the invasion tunnels into Israel.

HMS Jr. 02 Aug 14 14:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phebe (Post 2863415)
I wonder whether the IDF is satisfied they've found and destroyed all the invasion tunnels into Israel.

Left to me, I'd "miss" one, two, no more than three and depending on how many were destroyed/"found". Why? Well, lets just say I'd find a use for it.

FWIW, ^that^ isn't about Israelis or Palestinians. I'd do it no matter who my foe(s) are/ or were.

Phebe 02 Aug 14 14:29

Never mind, Reuters just put up the answer to my question:

Quote:

GAZA/JERUSALEM - Some Israeli ground forces withdrew from the Gaza Strip on Saturday, two Israeli television stations reported, after the military said it was close to achieving its main war goal of destroying Hamas cross-border tunnels.

HMS Jr. 02 Aug 14 14:39

Quote:

GAZA/JERUSALEM - Some Israeli ground forces withdrew from the Gaza Strip on Saturday, two Israeli television stations reported, after the military said it was close to achieving its main war goal of destroying Hamas cross-border tunnels.
That would be precisely what I'd want my foe to buy and believe as-if it were gospel.

marktwain 02 Aug 14 14:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by HMS Jr. (Post 2863418)
Left to me, I'd "miss" one, two, no more than three and depending on how many were destroyed/"found". Why? Well, lets just say I'd find a use for it.

FWIW, ^that^ isn't about Israelis or Palestinians. I'd do it no matter who my foe(s) are/ or were.

good point. Once you have a sixty foot pit, you can drill horizontally.

Persephone 02 Aug 14 15:08

From what I've read, Operation Protective Edge will continue on a smaller scale for as long as necessary.


Netanyahu's public address:


Quote:

Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu stated Saturday night that Operation Protective Edge in Gaza will continue "for as much time as necessary," despite reports indicating that some IDF forces may be withdrawing.

"From the beginning, we promised to return the quiet to Israel's citizens and we will continue to act until that aim is achieved. We will take as much time as necessary, and will exert as much force as needed," he said in a public address.
"We have the strong support of the US and Europe, which is an important achievement for Israel," he continued. "It will strengthen our mission to demilitarize, disarm and reconstruct the Gaza Strip."

"We have nothing against the people of Gaza, we regret every civilian killed," he added.

Netanyahu also intimated that Israel has formed closer bonds with its neighboring countries over the latest clash of fighting, which saw Hamas finally blamed by much of the international community for breaking a 72-hour humanitarian cease-fire arrangement.

"No less important, and certainly surprising to many, is the unique relationship formed with countries in the region," Netanyahu said, noting that "this, too is a very important asset for Israel."

"After the hostilities and the end of the campaign it will open many possibilities," he said. "It's obvious what is happening here. Hamas wants to blame Israel for the suffering of Gazans. The world understands who Hamas is [now], the organization that, together with Qatar, led John Kerry and Obama to be fooled."

"Unfortunately there are also different voices, to them I say: terrorism has no borders - today they threaten the State of Israel and tomorrow they will go after other countries," he continued. "What will you do with them then? Will you stand with Israel?"
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Ne...5#.U901OKiIvow

marktwain 02 Aug 14 15:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phebe (Post 2863415)
I wonder whether the IDF is satisfied they've found and destroyed all the invasion tunnels into Israel.

Computer controlled directional drilling. form a 60 foot burrow pit, "finds' tunnels.:D

winter floods tunnels
http://blogs.oxfam.org/en/blogs/14-0...pe-still-alive

Granatiere 04 Aug 14 13:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golani (Post 2863355)
IDF forces had issued the residents of northern Gaza an official announcement that they may return to their homes as the fighting there is over and started withdrawing forces.

It is currently unclear what the situation is in the southern portion of the strip, as Israel still has an MIA officer which had resulted in an increase of operations including taking over portions of the "Philadelphi route" (i.e the Gaza-Egypt border route, also the main location of smuggling tunnels).

PM Netanyahu will issue an official statement on 21:00 local time.

Hi, Oded, reading italian Israel and US newspapers I had the feeling that IDF field intelligence underestimated the number and the extension of Hamas tunnels. Only combat engineers got tunnel rats training, right? What do you think about it?

Golani 04 Aug 14 14:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Granatiere (Post 2864568)
Hi, Oded, reading italian Israel and US newspapers I had the feeling that IDF field intelligence underestimated the number and the extension of Hamas tunnels. Only combat engineers got tunnel rats training, right? What do you think about it?

We knew about the tunnels. I personally took place in countless ops revolving around tunnels back in 2007-2008. What we did miss is the amount, strength and general scope of tunnels. Probably mainly due to the fact that they were built under U.N (and/or U.N affiliated organizations) cover. The materiel provided was partially supplied by UNRWA and some of the major tunnels lead into/from U.N and civilian facilities (schools, mosques, hospitals, etc.)

Not only combat engineers are trained in tunnel warfare, one of the lessons learned from Lebanon 2 was to acquaint all infantry units in underground-CQB, however a specific unit within combat engineers ,a.k.a Samor- which is both the Hebrew acronym for Slikim (caches/stashes) and tunnels and Hebrew for weasel, is the go to expert on the subject.

It is important to note though that the IDF avoided going inside as much as possible.

Granatiere 04 Aug 14 14:27

Thanks, it was also my opinion. :)

Sergio 04 Aug 14 18:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golani (Post 2864612)
We knew about the tunnels. I personally took place in countless ops revolving around tunnels back in 2007-2008. What we did miss is the amount, strength and general scope of tunnels. Probably mainly due to the fact that they were built under U.N (and/or U.N affiliated organizations) cover. The materiel provided was partially supplied by UNRWA and some of the major tunnels lead into/from U.N and civilian facilities (schools, mosques, hospitals, etc.)

Not only combat engineers are trained in tunnel warfare, one of the lessons learned from Lebanon 2 was to acquaint all infantry units in underground-CQB, however a specific unit within combat engineers ,a.k.a Samor- which is both the Hebrew acronym for Slikim (caches/stashes) and tunnels and Hebrew for weasel, is the go to expert on the subject.

It is important to note though that the IDF avoided going inside as much as possible.

When you say that they are built under UN or UN affiliated sites and that some of the major tunnels lead from UN facilities do you have figures as to how many sites that is.

Also how many tunnels go under UN sites just as they go under other buildings with the people above not knowing?

Cheetah772 04 Aug 14 23:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golani (Post 2864612)
We knew about the tunnels. I personally took place in countless ops revolving around tunnels back in 2007-2008. What we did miss is the amount, strength and general scope of tunnels. Probably mainly due to the fact that they were built under U.N (and/or U.N affiliated organizations) cover. The materiel provided was partially supplied by UNRWA and some of the major tunnels lead into/from U.N and civilian facilities (schools, mosques, hospitals, etc.)

Not only combat engineers are trained in tunnel warfare, one of the lessons learned from Lebanon 2 was to acquaint all infantry units in underground-CQB, however a specific unit within combat engineers ,a.k.a Samor- which is both the Hebrew acronym for Slikim (caches/stashes) and tunnels and Hebrew for weasel, is the go to expert on the subject.

It is important to note though that the IDF avoided going inside as much as possible.

Excellent information.

If HAMAS are building tunnels underground with some buildings providing cover, is IDF demolishing these complexes down as to deny opportunities to conceal tunneling operations and making it easier for IDF to spot them?

Honestly I'm not sure what else IDF can do to reduce the number of tunnels and rocket attacks other than occupying Gaza with an iron fist. I don't think Israelis like that idea either.

You have my sympathies for Israel doing her best in combating HAMAS' incessant attacks.


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